Job Discussion Forums

Lee_Odden · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 172

I can use some collective wisdom from the "old-hands" on this board.

I started teaching in China some seven months ago on a one-year contract. The school pays the base salary on time but is otherwise extremely disrespectful to, and contemptuous of, its foreign teachers in a variety of ways. Problems with apartments, missing overtime monies, etc, are either completely ignored or responded to only after a long, drawn-out barrage of threats.

I do like China and would like to try another school, especially a university (I have a master�s degree in English and a few years teaching experience). Here's the problem: The school is refusing to release me six weeks early even though they have put in writing that they are not interested in extending my contract! (So, in effect, by making me complete the contract, they are seeing to it that I would miss the beginning of the Fall semester by about six weeks). In response to my requests to be released early, they have issued a couple of ambiguous threats.

With four months notice, I do not see what their financial damages would be. In fact, I would be the only one with substantial financial losses - I would lose the return airfare home plus an additional month�s salary as a completion bonus!

Of course, I could just take off, return to America and re-enter with a new visa. My concern in doing this is two-fold. First, I would rather be released then just break the contract � I have always honored my contracts but I know the school is being deliberately punitive here by not releasing me a little early (they are angry with me because I am a little more vocal about getting things done than the others and they know that I would prefer to work in a university). Second, I have read, here and there, that if a school wants to be vindictive, they can somehow ban a teacher for life with the PSB through the Education Ministry? Has anyone heard of this?

So, what do you think guys? I would love to start a new position in September but the school is not going to make that easy for me. In the alternative, I could finish out the contract, try to find local work for three months and hopefully, some decent university will pick me up in January. Otherwise, I�d be looking at a nine-month contract with some other private English school until Fall semester 2005! But I really want to avoid another private school if I can. To varying degrees, from what I can see, most of them are trouble in some way(s).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Lee

davis · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 8:28 am Post subject:

If you have given them notice then I think it would be ok to walk. Many employers here try to use intimidation tactics to make you stay. As for the veiled threat "We'd hate for anything unpleasant to happen to you", tell them you've contacted your embassy about that and if anything unpleasant happens they will be held responsible. Go in peace my son.

struelle · Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 2372 Location: Shanghai

Teacher Lindsay · Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 393 Location: Luxian, Sichuan

Steve wrote:-

Norman Bethune · Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 731

[quote="Lee_Odden"]I can use some collective wisdom from the "old-hands" on this board.

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

Isn't things like not paying overtime monies and not taking care of apartment problems a "breach of contract"? Everytime I've had a problem with me school (contract-related) then I make sure I say that this such-and-such problem could be considered a breach of contract. That generally gets the problem fixed right away. Do you have such a clause in your contract? Basically it says that if you do not honor your contract (job duties, completing the contract, etc.) then you are in breach. If the school does not honor the things they say they will do for you (such as paying money) then they are in breach and they actually should owe you a penalty amount.

I would pore over my contract if I were you and make a list of things they have not fulfilled to date. If all else fails, can't you contact the school you want to go to and explain you situation? Maybe they will send a letter to your current school or call someone or something.

Lee_Odden · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 172

I really want to thank everyone for their feedback.

Norman, you did a great job of explaining and putting into words what I have been fearing the most. Please understand that I am worried that if I tell everyone the name of the school, now that I am still here, it won�t be pretty. Until I extricate myself from this school and this province, I feel I have to be somewhat vague. But I do promise I will write a full report for the Job Informational Journal once I am out. Yes, it is a school like English First in a less desirable province.

For details, please feel free to write me at [email protected].

lagerlout2006 · Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 985

Just a quick thought. It would not be impossible to get a Uni job 6 weeks into the term--providing you stay for the following term...Teachers come and go and spots always open up.Just a thought.

Otherwise give them notice in a nice way...Perhaps even do them a favor.But things do sound pretty sour there...A teacher here left without notice to a bigger city amid threats he would be jailed-fined-never work in China again etc. School are finding out now they are almost powerless. But every situation is different. Good luck.

bullitt · Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 49 Location: Shanghai

Lee,
First off, I am not an expert on Chinese law. To that end, feel free to disregard what follows in its entirety if you are so inclined. My advice is based on my legal training in the US(both common and civil law) and Europe. I am only directing my comments to the legal ramifications of running on this contract, as opposed to, for lack of a better term, the political consequences. I would not worry about them actually coming after you for damages. It would be far more costly for them to pursue the matter over what I can only imagine is a relatively small amount of money. Even if China has a loser-pays system like the UK,(unlike the US) the uncertainty associated with actually collecting a judgment from you would make pursuing an action foolhardy. The thinly veiled threat that you mentioned in your post(we would not want anything bad to happen you, or something of that sort) sounds like saber-rattling to me. As to your sentiments about not wanting to break a contract because it is just not the right thing to do, well...I agree with you, but one must remember that the Chinese concept of contract is different than the western one. I assure you that were the tables turned, you would not receive the courtesy you have extended them.
Now this is just an educated guess, but I doubt VERY much that the local school or even the local PSB will be able to exercise any real power in another jurisdiction. As I said before, I am no China expert, but I do know bureaucracy works.

Bullitt

As mentioned above, the author of this post is not licensed to practice law in the Peoples Republic of China. Under no circumstances should the comments above be construed as legal advice, nor is any warranty, express or implied, given as to the accuracy of any of these comments.

Lee_Odden · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 172

Lee_Odden · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 172

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Can I ask you: are you legal, i.e. with a work visa and the relevant permits?

And, is this school a training centre or a public school?

If the latter, you could try to settle things with the help from the relevant education bureau (you must find out which education bureau they are attached to).
It would be an informal agreement, not legally enforceable and binding, but it might be worth a try.

If, however, you are not legal, I would cut my losses and decamp!

Ger · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 334

It is worrying that you have talked to your "Chinese friends" about your school situation. If you assume that your "Chinese friends" are not talking to others (like people at your school) about your problems you may be mistaken. Just because you regard them as your friends doesn't mean that they keep what you tell them as private and confidential.

From my experience and understanding of working with the Chinese in the PRC is that they regard relationships as more important than money and unfortuantely they push this correlation to the limit: try to screw you for time and money in exchange for friendship, looking after your well-being, fixing apartment things that shouldn't be broken in the first place.

What you want from them now is for them to accept your request to end the contract early so that you can find a university position and you want them to give you a letter of release/reference, your bonus, your airfare.

With your self-professed negotiations skills I think you could leave early yet, get your reference letter (type it up yourself), bonus pro rata, airfare pro rata. Use what they want to get your new priority: earlier you wanted overtime money in exchange for the services that they wanted (and you seem to have sacrificed good relationships in the process); now you want something different: you want out early. In the new negotiations you may not be able to get it all (e.g., overtime monies, apartment appliances fixed, leave early, release letter, bonus, airfare, etc.). You may consider giving up part of somethings so as to get other things. So instead of expecting your full flight monies you might try to get some flight money, etc.

If your new priority is to set yourself up for a university position in late August 2004, then go for that, if you have to buy your way out of the contract then why not consider that option. The school doesn't have to end the contract early without costs to you. It really depends on what your contract states on this point of termination of contract. In some contracts, termination is reached through mutual consent. In other contracts, it is reached through one party giving the other one month's notice in writing of intention to end the contract.

In any case, try not to focus on what has gone before, try to think of where you want to go and how to get there.

My view is DON'T let your current circumstances destroy you as a person. Look ahead to your next university position. Imagine it and picture yourself as a lecturer there.

Lee_Odden · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 172

Guest · Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 7:30 pm Post subject:

Three teachers have done a "runner" from my School in the past three months or so.

When I queried the Vice Principal if they were going to chase them for the money - she said that there was nothing in place for them to chase them legally.

Their contract did stipulate that they would have to pay a large fine if they left prior to the end of the term, but even though one of the teachers is living in Shanghai, and the School is aware of that, they have still decided not to do anything about it.

I think, in most cases, that the Schools would not be bothered to try and find you - what would be the point?

I think it may be best to leave China though and come back with a clean slate.

I do not agree with "doing a runner" as it impacts on the teachers left behind - they are viewed differently, but if things are impossible to tolerate then try and do it as cleanly as you can.