Job Discussion Forums

[Qaaolchoura]

So having been here a bit, and while I like Istanbul a lot, I'm reluctant to make two major leaps: 1. Investing the time and money into getting a permanent residency. 2. Taking a bad job, even as a stop-gap, and thus breaking the terms of my tourist visa.

Regarding housing:
It would seem that getting set up in Turkey requires an immense amount of upfront money and effort, including: 2 month's rent upfront for an unfurnished apartment, plus cost of furnishing apartment and work permit, and then a great deal of time to set up utilities.

Staying here legally might also be tricky because it sounds like I need a residency permit to get a lease and a lease to get a residency permit, but I know it's done.

Regarding legality:
It would seem I won't be working in Turkey legally period, unless I put in enough time with a company to make it worth their while. I could come back if I got a Fulbright or a similar award (I know people with no experience who have gone to Italy, France, and Spain that way), and I could come back with more teaching experience and get hired by a university.

I'm also a bit nervous about the long-term effects of working illegally. I understand that work laws here are like speed limits in the United States, in terms of both enforcement and consequences. But from what I hear the government has just recently started cracking down harder on illegal foreigners, so it's uncharted territory. I'm not all that keen on working illegally to begin with, and the AK Parti makes me more nervous.

Regarding jobs:
It's very easy to get a job offer, but hard to find and acceptable job offer. Given the work permit situation, I'm going to be playing games with employers over pay and hours, and likely switching employers fairly frequently.

I'm also wondering about my overall hireability. The majority of jobs I've applied for I haven't been offered me a position. And I haven't been offered a job with any school with an advertised position, even after interviews where the school came across as desperate. (This may of course be my interview technique.)

Anyways...
So I'm looking at three options here:
1. Push on, make the major investment in getting settled, and hope that things work out for the best. Borrow money from my family to set myself up, and hope that, take the next decent job I get, even if involves teaching children, and hope that I can arrange things such that I'm not working long hours and living hand-to-mouth.

2. Try another city. Though I've heard that the job market is better outside of Istanbul, I believe only Ankara, Izmir, and Bursa have a large enough pool of jobs to make going there feasible. In this case I'm taking another gamble, since I know almost nothing about those cities (though I've been to Bursa). Most people who've lived in Turkey have lived in Istanbul.

3. Retreat. Look for a job from abroad elsewhere. This almost certainly means East Asia, and therefore means at least two of the three: 1. teaching children, 2. insufferable heat, 3. corrupt governments, but it means that I'd be working there legally. It also means that I would have some idea of pay and hours ahead of time, but no idea about the actual workplace.

I guess what I really want to know is:
1. What am I not considering in my overall assessment of the situation?
2. Is it worth trying another city? Which one?
3. If I got some experience elsewhere, what are my chances of landing a job from outside of the country, and thus securing a work visa?
4. Any other advice?

Thanks and regards,
~Q

[coffeespoonman]

In regard to the questions you posed at the bottom of your post.

1. You're right. Istanbul is NOT as easy as Asia or the ME to start up in. I'm in China now, and SHOCKED at how easy everything is. Furnished flats, cash advances, etc. However, I did it in Istanbul, with literally 250 USD to my name, so it CAN be done. Was it pleasant though? Not at all.

I started by working illegally at a generic language school for a year, and then moved up to a legal uni job the next year. I guess I got a bit lucky, but Istanbul's full of people who get a bit lucky. Istanbul's also very good at rewarding people who put in the effort and stick with it a while. If you're honestly motivated to live in Turkey, I'm sure you'll be able to swing it, albeit uncomfortably for a while.

2. Is it worth trying another city? Which one?

Izmir. Maybe. But I wouldn't, personally. Izmir is ok for a visit, but I didn't think I'd really enjoy living there. Maybe others who have actually worked there can give some perspective that I lack. Other options (Ankara, Gaziantep, Diyarbakir, etc.) all seem even worse.

3. If I got some experience elsewhere, what are my chances of landing a job from outside of the country, and thus securing a work visa?

Slim to none.

4. If you really want to live in Turkey, take a job at a language school that gives you a small housing supplement, then rent a room with international students or other teachers. You won't need a residence permit. Work through the rest of your tourist visa and see how comfortable you feel. If you want to continue, do a border run, come back and wait for a while. Come March/April, start applying for jobs that you really want. Do another border run. Then, if you don't have something lined up that really blows your hair back (i.e. legal and well-paying), take that free flight to Korea (or whereever).

Good luck!

[lucia79]

My friends and I found that startup costs in Istanbul were quite a bit. However, we bit the bullet and did it. And as Coffeespoonman mentioned people who hang in there tend to get rewarded. I agree that East Asia is much easier and my friends and I reminisce about the easiness. But, Istanbul has so many great things about it and so do other places in Turkey.

Izmir isn't bad, although one could find it a little boring and repetitive. There certainly isn't as much going on as there is in Istanbul. But with that being said, there are a lot of good points about Izmir. I heard that the job market may not be as competitive. The scenery is great and it's a good launchpad for travelling to coastal towns and sightseeing. Rent is cheaper too and you can live near the sea without having to pay an arm and a leg for it. Public transport is good and it's easy to get around the city. And it's a short plane ride away from Istanbul.

[gloomyGumi]

Izmir, in all its alleged laidback-ness, is probably way more interesting than equivalent-sized cities in Korea.

[Aristede]

[lucia79]

[Qaaolchoura]

Thanks all. Guess I will bite the bullet after all.

As for the housing permit, I believe I do need it. I've been told by other foreigners that at the Greek and Bulgarian borders they are enforcing the visa thing. There's rumors at at the Iraqi and possibly Georgian borders they're more lax, but that's a long way to travel.

As for the residency permit, I'm getting conflicting information: 80 dollars or 400 dollars?

Izmir sounds nice, I don't drink and I don't like U2, but I suppose I'll get a residency permit for Istanbul.

Any recommendations for where to stay? I'm in Fatih right now, which of course isn't a good place to live. I'm thinking either Bakirkoy or Kadikoy, since there seem to be clusters of jobs in those areas and a ferry runs between them.

Thanks again,
~Q

[lucia79]

If you're from the US then you pay $80, more or less for a one year residency permit. The price dropped sometime in the spring for it.

[Qaaolchoura]

[lucia79]

This is purely hearsay about less competition. Most Teflers do head to Istanbul, but not a lot of folks want to go to Izmir for some reason. So, if there are less teachers applying for jobs because there aren't that many there in the first place then job opportunites are more abundant. I feel if you are a good teacher and the school likes you and your CV you'll get offered a job anyways.

[Qaaolchoura]

Yes, you'll get offered a job if you walk around certain neighborhoods shaking a stick, and I have been. I just want to find one where I won't be teaching children, and have some idea about the hours in advance.

~Q

[_smaug]

[lucia79]

Don't let the startup costs scare you from giving Istanbul a try. Yes, it can be a bit pricey. I dished out a lot of money for an apt. (rent, emlak fee, deposit, furniture, appliances etc.) but I also had a good job that paid really well. So whatever I paid to set up a home in the beginning was quickly returned by my earnings.

Maybe you will or won't land a great paying job at first. Let's say you get a mediocre job, but if you network, learn more about the schools and what they have to offer etc., then you can probably get a better job next time. It is like what CSM stated, if you hang in there and put forth effort, you will get rewarded.

[gloomyGumi]

sounds great lucia79, but what minimum salary would you recommend accepting in Istanbul as per being able to pay all minimum bills (I mean rent, utilities, food, and cell phone, transportation ONLY) and still save hopefully the equivalent of US $300 per month, if its possible at all?

[lucia79]

I sent you a pm GloomyGumi.