Job Discussion Forums

[TheOmar]

Hi Everyone!

I'm new to this forum so I'm sorry if this question has already been asked. I didn't see it while I was browsing through.

I've been teaching for 3 years now, and I would love to continue my career by moving into teaching for the private sector. Specifically, in the tourism/hospitality industry. I think it would be so cool to teach English to staff at hotels. We've all been in that situation where we have had to deal with hotel staff who do not speak much English.

How can I go about looking for positions like this?
I'm not really looking into the big 2: Saigon/HCM & Hanoi. However, I might consider it.
More into the smaller cities which have seen a recent influx of tourists and would maybe be in need of English teachers at their hotels.

Any tips and suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks!

[snollygoster]

I have tried to get this going myself a few times, but it never seems to get off the ground.
There is definately a need, however, most hotel owners are not prepared to pay even a reasonable amount to have their staff able to converse with the "tay".
Something about the "grab the money and get rid of them- we will never see them again" mentality.
I notice Vietnam has just increased its tourist retrurn rate from 3% to almost 5%, whilst Thailand has a steady return rate close to 50%, and their hotel staff speak English.
I think you have a good idea, and it would certainly help Vietnam a lot if you COULD get some interest in it. My experience is they couldn't care less.
Sorry to be so blunt.- I hope you prove me wrong.

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

Two off-topic postings have been deleted. If the contentious bickering goes on, the thread will not accompanied by permanent bans to include ISPs.

This is not the board to take shots at people.

Please don't confuse us with boards that permit and/or promote such activity.

We do not and we bring it to an end very quickly.

[haller_79]

An English school is an English school - I don't see what difference it makes if it's a 'Hospitality' English school or a 'Hollywood' English school, the ultimate aim is grammar and pronunciation.
On that front it seems Vietnam is throwing the kitchen sink at learning English - just go for a ride around TPHCMC and count the number of language centres you pass.

Thailand gets more tourists (we know the reasons good and bad) and so they have more opportunity to practise speaking English, much like the spruikers in the middle of Saigon generally speak better English than the kids in language centres studying their arses off.

Also phonetically it would seem that the bridge from Viet to English is greater than from Thai to English, in fact I think Vietnamese is about as far away from English as you can get.

To conclude, if the ESL sector was the determinant to how well an Asian country speaks Englsih then technically Japan and Korea should be the most fluent.

Cheers.

[Belgrove]

Vietnam is a place where someone with a good idea and the will and the desire to implement that idea will succeed.

Always maintain an open mind and don't be put off by stories of previous failures. Vietnam is littered with people who have failed in ventures not properly marketed and sold.

You, and your personality will be the first most important benefit you will put before anyone. Go to the big hotels first and ask everyone in sight just who you should be pitching to. Examine the decision-making structure and criteria that goes with it.

Your first point of contact is the front door of every hotel you come across, you'll stumble, you'll fall, then you'll find your feet.

Remember the story of the two shoe salesmen who went to India and it'll keep your spirits up. Success is in your hands.

I wish you good luck

[haller_79]

[Belgrove]

I only know what I know.

I only talk from experience.

Start in a language mill and you'll most likely remain there.

The people I know and meet regularly here and in Hanoi are all success stories.

I would still advise the OP to aim high and keep their eye on their target.

[haller_79]

[Belgrove]

Okay, what do you think about setting up English clubs in Government offices throughout Vietnam?

Labour departments, tax offices, hospital admins etc?

Possible?

[generalgiap]

Well, some interesting ideas, however, I'll give you some advice from someone who has been there and done it.

First, there are many EFL teachers who say they want to teach in hotels in Vietnam but it is generally all talk and no action. Let's deal with the facts.
English for the hotel or hospitality industry is English for specific purpose course( ESP). There are two markets for this in Vietnam, the 4/5 star hotels and the 3 star hotels. The '"5" star hotels such as the Hyatt, Sheraton etc only employ Vietnamese staff (have direct contact with guests) front office, food and beverage etc who speak English at an intermediate level or higher.
Other staff, housekeeping etc, elementary or higher. Therefore, they generally don't employ EFL teachers but they sometimes have short refresher courses. And they generally sign contracts with the reputable EFL schools in Vietnam because cost is not a big issue, they know that teachers come and go so they prefer stability and they can sometimes find EFL teachers who have a background in the hospitality industry at one of the schools. This is the case in HCMCHanoi but the big hotels in other cities will employ private teachers because they generally dont have a choice.
Therefore, I would go after the 3/4 star hotels.

How to get in the door. First you need a course outline and material.
You can go to fahasa book store in HCMC and it has about 4 or 5 books, English for the hotel industry. The table of contents is the course outline.
Type a one page course outline, write a cover letter to the HR Manager of the hotel, include a one page profile of yourself. Send it to them or deliver in person and ask to speak to the HR Manager. Once you are in the meeting with the HR Manager it is up to you to sell yourself. Fee between 25-30 usd per hour, possibly more, depends on who is buying the books etc etc.

Regarding the Vietnamese and Thai languages, well, one should try to learn Thai without knowing the alphabet which is based on both the Khmer/Lao scripts. The great thing about learning Vietnamese(Quoc Ngu)is the alphabet is based on the latin script.

I could write more details on English for the Hotel industry since I have developed tailored material and delivered courses for hotels in Vietnam.

Hope I did not offend anyone!

Best of luck.

[Belgrove]

Comprehensive and nicely put.

Clearly first-hand experience.

Everyone has ambition but are they prepared to put in the work it takes to achieve that ambition?

That's what I like about Vietnam, the fact that so many before toyed with an idea but didn't act on it. It makes turning up with the goods such a big attraction to the buyer. The idea is already there so that initial hurdle is out of the way.

Generalgiap, I'm sure you've given the OP plenty to mull over.

[generalgiap]

Regarding the English clubs, been there done that. They always fail after a few clubs and they generally only run 2 or 3 times a month, will be lucky to get one a week. Anyway, try it.

The big money in Vietnam, where is it? I know because I have done it.

Well, I have a few friends who are currently making between 5000 to 8000 usd per month teaching privates. This is how you do it. They charge an hourly rate per student, usually korean, Japanese housewives. Each student pays ten usd per hour, the classes are conducted in their apts during the day. One usually starts with 3-6 students, students can join at anytime, they will tell their friends and the numbers will increase rapidly. They only pay if they attend. My friends have 4-6 classes, each class is two or three times per week two hour sessions, about 25 hours per week. Each class has about 8-10 students, ~80-100 usd per hour, these classes are not really teaching but entertainig the housewives. I also helped them set up a networking system.

Belgrove, you are exactly right, no ambition, but the foreigners who have ambition and try to do something different will probably succeed, in fact its not something different just stop talking and do it. However, in some cases one needs experience quals etc. Even my friends who are teaching these privates needed me to get them started, contacts etc, but you can do it on your own. I did.


I would give more details but I am currently setting up an EFL website for Vietnam. And it wont be free, will cost to join.

Take care

[Belgrove]

[snollygoster]

Thanks general. Spot on correct. Privates is where the money is. Tea and bikkies with the local rich, or ex-pat housewives.
Also did that myself, and it IS very worth while financially.

If you start in a language mill, you will get to meet some of the people who can populate your private classes.

Hotels are a great idea, but hard work, and as the General states about English clubs-they get weaker and weaker as they go. Hotels also contract to Language mills, and as the employees are not actually paying, their interest wanes pretty fast. Privates doing tea and bikkies with the ladies become something of a status symbol amongst the participants.

Follow the general- he knows what he's talking about.

[haller_79]

Giap's comments pretty much confirm what I suspected. I only ever met two success stories in the Vietnam ESL game, one was a recruiter/consultant, the other one ran privates in his home. As I understand it they both did their time in mills before getting adventurous - that's how they got their money, and that's how they built their contacts. Of course I met mill workers who were relatively happy to be just that, but met more (including myself) who weren't for reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum on this board and others.
I cannot imagine stepping off the plane and trying to start up your own business with no local knowledge or knowledge of the Vietnam ESL game - it makes no sense, I believe the correct word for it is 'whim', but according to Belgrove a whim is more than enough because this after all is Vietnam, a magical place where the laws of physics no longer apply.