Job Discussion Forums

[owly jr]

Does anyone have experience of, or has anyone heard anything about Shane English Centre in Vietnam? I've googled and searched the forums here at Dave's and nothing has turned up? Their offer of $960 per month for an 80 hour month seems fairly standard (or maybe slightly below), but they seem to offer good support and training for newbs like me, which might outweigh this drawback

[Tanker]

[JamesDavid4th]

hey tanker - just out of curiosity, in your opinion what would a good hourly salary be for a qualified teacher? i have my BA, a TEFL certificate, and one year experience working in Korea. thanks

[inky]

The bare minimum for those qualifications should be $16(US)/hour, with benefits. I would start by asking for $18. The top ESL wage in Vietnam (excluding RMIT/BC) is $20-$21 to start, but that would be difficult to get. Remember also that some schools tack on hourly premiums for teaching Business English, for teaching on Sundays, and for teaching off-site, so your $16/hr wage could actually be higher on average.

[LongShiKong]

I just started working for Shane in China and would love to hear from anyone there. PM me or post your reply to this thread. I recently posted the following comments on the Japan forum thread:
I've been at a new Shane in China for 2 months. The 15 yr old system I came from was twice as organized as Shane (at age 34).

There are too many flashcards--100s--and yet, no list available anywhere--not even from head office. For SPEC1* I'm supposed to use cards from 4 different sets and yet colour flaschcards are duplicated in at least 2 different sets as are numbers. Some of the flashcards are even ambiguous in the way they've been illustrated.

The Playtime, E-Z Colour, and FAB Red books are merely colouring books. Likewise, the SPEC books have limited classroom value. Strangely, there's not even a teacher's book for the Playtime or E-Z Colour--courses that tend to be the most lucrative for this market.

The FAB Red CD contains only '80's New Wave inspired songs--barely acceptable for classroom use, but are students expected to sing along at home? They hardly reflect the actual language taught in the class including my N.A. pronunciation.

The 'level check' test (initial placement test) and corresponding form seem a complete afterthought rather than something carefully thought out and continually revised over the past 34 yrs. There's not even any teacher/course evaluation form for adults to fill in.

As for the elitism, I've suggested we put up a Cdn and US flag next to the Union Jack at the gate of our school. There're no Brits here.

Having never been to Japan, I'm curious---is the heavily drill-oriented teaching method that Shane uses common there? During training in Shanghai, we covered well over a dozen drilling methods. I know the highly successful author of Longman Superkids series that's more popular there relies heavily on drilling.

* I assume the books are the same: Playtime, E-Z Colour, FAB, Open Door, SPEC, Take Off, etc.)

[Andy123]

You have flashcards? OMG! Only a handful of schools I worked at in Vietnam had them. I would have given my left n� for an unorganized pile. Sorry.

The schools that did have some were old and beat up. At one school the Viet teachers would hide them in their lockers and did not want to give them up. I ended up making and laminating my own at most schools. I know, stupid and a waste of money but I cared. The production and activity time using such aids is endless even for adults.

It is commonly accepted that 80% of all learning is visual. In Vietnam the standard teaching aid is chalk and a book. Most people would be shocked to realize how many hours are spent at the teaching universities on penmanship, rote principles and drawing.

Please do not tell me that the private schools can not afford aids. Most schools are a business and are run as such. Backpacks, hats and phony scholarship certificates are more important.

[LongShiKong]

No flashcards (for the FTs)!?!?

Interesting! How are you expected to do all those drills without flashcards? Didn't your training cover dozens of drilling methods and games, most relying upon the 100s of flashcards? Prior to joining Shane, I'd only used flashcards for beginners. I'm used to more communicative methods of instruction, and much more usable coursebooks, not drilling decontextualized vocabulary and patterns. I'd be stretching it if I spent even 30 minutes with the 2 pages in the book--I'm used to 4 and even 6 per lesson.

Perhaps the rationale is for Vietnamese TAs to do the voc/pattern drilling and for FTs to provide the communicative context--a shopping role-play for example.

Does your school have plastic fruits, toys, or any other realia? How about photocopied teacher resource books?

[snollygoster]

Does your school have plastic fruits, toys, or any other realia? How about photocopied teacher resource books?
Of course- AND we have a heated swimming pool, a sauna and hot spa for the teachers, free lobster meals and free flowing alcoholic beverages.

Seriously, a few schools will have some of the things you ask about, but generally, the answer is NO.
SHANE is the only school I have seen with school funded Flash Cards that actually correspond to the book. Others have teacher made ones that are poor to say the least (hand coloured as colour photocopying is illegal in Vietnam), and poorly laminated (if at all).

I have a lap-top and portable projector, and find the best flash cards are the ones I produce myself amd show by projector. (Dont expect a school to have a projector).

[1st Sgt Welsh]

[inhanoi]

My school has full sets of flashcards for every unit of every YL book, and all the other bells and whistles mentioned above, including a wall of resource books and CDs. I didn't realize that this was unusual. I guess we're spoiled.

Also, a correction: It is quite easy to get color copies of pdf files printed and laminated in Hanoi: inexpensive, efficient and nicely done. It isn't illegal.

[LongShiKong]

Snollygoster, perhaps you were told it was illegal just to shut you up about the lack of resources your school has. Some schools, including the Aston English schools I've worked at are even too cheap to invest in an inkjet printer, let alone a laminator. But at least in China, Aston does have flashcards for their lower levels.

A lot of is determined by how critical the franchisee thinks having a well-equipped, professionally-staffed* school is to attracting customers. Given the fact Shane's tuition is much higher than Aston's, I'd expect Shane schools to be much better equipped.

inhanoi: I'm trying to connect with other Shane personnel and other schools to see what progressive steps, if any, such schools are taking. As you may be aware, Shane in Japan has been sold as the industry there goes through a period of intense restructuring. However, here in China after more than a decade of phenomenal TEFL industry growth, Shane hasn't opened up that many new schools.

My guess is it's due to:
a) an out-dated, teacher-centric, drill-based curriculum popular only in Japan;
b) audio ill-suited to at-home listening and speaking practice;
c) coursebooks which don't (fully) reflect language taught in class;
d) tuition much higher than the market leader;

Some schools here in China I've heard have done their own thing and as a matter of fact, we were encouraged to do the same by a head office rep when we opened.

*Based on what I've observed, Shane's Chinese teaching (?) staff receive even less training than at Aston as all classes are taught by foreigners with the Chinese teacher merely 'assisting'.

[spycatcher reincarnated]

Not sure how long ago it was, but at one stage during my stay here a special license/permission was required to have color photocopiers and printers. I recall that at one stage Bates Advertising was raided by a government department and all their color printers were taken away.

I haven't heard of a change to this law, but it does not seem to have been enforced for a number of years now.

[The Mad Hatter]

finally an interesting poster. . Vietnamese rationale for FT's is often to have the drilling or modeling pronunciation. they like to explain grammar and tell FTs to stay the hell away from grammar thank you very much because that's what they really like to keep for themselves. Especially the pages with fill in the blanks and multiple choice. Viet teachers are often clueless of how to actually interpret conversation cues and tasks for communicative lessons in the student books so they leave it up to FTs. Some younger teachers are becoming more involved in making materials and more creative but it is still a mix of grammar translation method with teacher student discussion , not book pre set role plays.
Lots of schools have preprinted cards and plastic food to show students . Plastic food in my opinion is not "realia" but I digress."
You do not have to believe a single word I say. But I do not think any of it is incorrect.

[robertstmary]

I have seen no reason to believe that Vietnamese teachers are any good at teaching grammar. Their alleged expertise in grammar, and therefore the need to hire them to teach grammar, is just a story that is spun to justify keeping costs down.

[Andy123]

1st Sergeant Welsh, please stop addressing the topic and giving accurate information. I have a large ADD problem and it is difficult sometimes to stay on topic.