Job Discussion Forums

stumptowny · Joined: 29 May 2011 Posts: 310

... after being let go, the principal immediately said he will pay my 1st months withheld salary, something I was worried about not getting. Great. I have to wait until the next payday - July 20.

Since then, in an email, I have been asked by HR to give my Visa issue date and to fax them my latest ARC. 1. Why am I being asked this? 2. What is the normal procedure? The HR person is saying it is "required paperwork needed ASAP." Why ASAP?

I was considering telling HR that I will be back in on July 20 to receive my final payment and I will give copies of my ARC then. Any advice for my email response, and what is feasible?

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Need some details first.

When did you start work?
Why were you fired?
How was it done?
What do you mean by first month withheld salary?

To fire you, they do not need your alien card or passport or anything else. What were your hiring/working conditions with respect to paperwork?

They hired you presumably legally, so they should know your visa issue date!

stumptowny · Joined: 29 May 2011 Posts: 310

Thanks Glenski...

seklarwia · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:52 pm Post subject:

Why would an employer go through the process of sponsoring the visa only to fire you a month later and on such short notice... just out of interest, do you know what is happening with your classes?

Normally, unless the employee had done something totally unacceptable, the school would want them to continue working so that they had a chance to find a new employee to takeover. If they basically said, "Don't come in tomorrow," then I would imagine they have somebody to cover your classes or already have a replacement...

...I'm wondering if they simply found somebody they liked more and wanted to give them your position. Thus your sudden dismissal with a rather wishy-washy explanation.

So had you signed a proper contract (as in one dated from when you were legally allowed to work)? If so, are they giving you one month's pay in lieu of the lack of the 4 weeks notice they should give you if they plan to dismiss you?

wayne432 · Joined: 05 Jun 2008 Posts: 255

Well generally after getting fired, they company would have to pay you within seven days (unless you allow them to wait longer).

But, given your situation... you have pretty much admitted to working illegally. You haven't mentioned any contracts that you signed... so I do with you the best of luck and hope you get paid properly.

G Cthulhu · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:30 pm Post subject:

And that, kids, is why you don't work illegally.

You have no rights because you had no legal contract: you and they cannot contract to break the law.

If you give them the copies of anything then they can turn around and point to the visa dates and say you're only entitled to pay after that date. After all, do you have any paperwork or records from them that *show* you were working *for them* before that date? Remember, English language documents have (& I'm summarizing here, but the point is basically solid) no basis in Japanese law, so you can't point to a contract in English and claim that as proof. I'd put money on them claiming that you were 'stringing them along and when [they] found out your dastardly plan, [they] canned you.'

Give them nothing. There's no conceivable benefit to you to give them the paperwork. Just go in, collect the money and walk away. Fast. If they screw you on the pay then you should just treat it as a life lesson and move on.

stumptowny · Joined: 29 May 2011 Posts: 310

I appreciate your responses.

Seklarwia: they are giving me my pay because the principal has good intentions and reputation to keep. As much as I was urked by my experience, they understand my effort and my situation. Also, with immediate termination they are supposed to pay you (legally). So they are treating me as a legal teacher effectively, which I appreciate. At least they are saying this. I will believe it after I get my pay. Yes, I am sure the students are fine now.

G Cthulhu: the benefit is that I will get my pay whereas if I don�t meet any requests, this could be used against me, yeah? I would love to agree with you and say, give them nothing! I don�t know about the �required paperwork� bit though? If the school can get in trouble because of my negligence, that is not good for me. If it�s just the school being anal about completing things, no biggie.

Anyway, lesson learned about working illegally.

The positives: I was paid in cash, on time, and I believe I will get my last payment. Also, I can walk with a new visa. I will be set to look for a proper job.

I would like to know how to handle my email response to the school and the premise for their request.

Does anyone have any solid advice about an email response? And specific reasons why I am being requested this information now, after I have been fired?

seklarwia · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject:

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Sorry, but more questions.

1. Eikaiwa or something else? You mentioned "principal", which suggests a direct hire at a school somewhere? Public or private school?

2. Since you just got your visa, I'm betting the HR department wants the issue date to cover the employer's butt with some sort of complete data on you. You are probably now going to get your money officially through channels, and that is why they want the ARC and visa data. Too late, IMO. How did you get an alien registration card, though?

3. What were your reasons for wanting to quit?

Cash in hand or not, you were working illegally, even during the visa process. If you want to fight this termination, do not talk to immigration. Talk to a labor standards office instead.

Saying you were teaching in a "western way" is not a reasonable reason for firing you, especially with no notice of warning to change. There is something else going on here. The principal has no reputation to protect if he allowed an illegal worker to teach. He is equally at fault here, so it is more a matter of covering his butt.

Vince · Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 559 Location: U.S.

stumptowny · Joined: 29 May 2011 Posts: 310

Do I reply to this email request or just wait to get my pay?

How about this email response: respond and confirm my visa issue date and say I will give my ARC when I come in to get my final pay? What is their immediacy to get this information?

Seklarwia:

you are right, paying in 7 days would be treating me legally.
the next pay will be for one month and I will have been paid for all my work at that point.

When they sent the email to request this information, the HR person started by saying he was surprised I quit then proceeded to request the information so he knew I was not working there any longer.

I was going to quit after getting my cash. I was given my cash and the principal went into their prepared firing speech before I could resign. lucky for me coz it will cost them a chunk of cash whereas if I had quit without 30 day notice, they could have not paid me. I am glad I stayed calm and did not quit hastily.

Glenski:

2. So you think they will ad me to payroll for the last payment? the principal said I will get cash. I think it will stay unofficial through the end.

3. The job was not about teaching, it was about revenue. The revenue method used was childcare under the guise of learning.

I think you are right about the principal covering their butt hence agreeing to pay me...

How should I respond via email? Is the onus on me to provide information and assure my pay or is the onus on them to cover their butts?

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

2. So you think they will add me to payroll for the last payment? the principal said I will get cash. I think it will stay unofficial through the end.
If the principal says you are going to be paid in cash for the first month and the 30-days' notice, then tell that to HR and give them nothing further. Wait for the left hand to talk to the right hand. Since the HR person thinks you quit, the principal is not being honest even with his own staff.

3. The job was not about teaching, it was about revenue. The revenue method used was childcare under the guise of learning.
If you think teaching overseas is about anything besides revenue, then you are naive. It's all about the employer making money, some more than others. (I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but you really aren't giving us a lot of information here, and that is annoying.)

I think you are right about the principal covering their butt hence agreeing to pay me...
The covering his butt is the HR department asking for documentation. It has nothing to do with getting your just dues of a 30-day payment.

Respond to the HR person as follows with as polite language as you can muster. Remember, he is not the one who fired you!

"I am sorry, but Principal Watanabe fired me. I did not quit. I just got my work visa, and I will not be working at XYZ school anymore, so I do not understand why the school needs my visa information.

By the way, Principal Watanabe promised me the legal 30-day salary after firing me. Do you need my bank account information to deposit the money next week?"

seklarwia · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:34 am Post subject:

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

I'm trying to get my head around some of this information. You don't write clear enough for me. Sorry.

Please confirm these dates and info.
1) You started work on April 1.
2) You didn't get your visa until May 27. HR didn't know about this for a month (after you got fired).
3) You got fired on/around June 20 (a payday).
4 The school has not paid you for one month's work so far.
5) They are only going to pay you for that outstanding month.

If #5 is right, they are breaking the law. As mentioned earlier, they owe you for the time you spent working there plus 30 days' pay because they didn't give you 30 days' notice. (See article 20 of the labor laws: http://www.jil.go.jp/english/laborinfo/library/documents/llj_law1-rev.pdf
However, the employer might try to use article 21 against that, even though it includes employing you illegally for part of the time:
Article 21. The provisions of the preceding article shall
not apply to any worker falling under any of the following
items...
(4) Workers in a probationary period.

If #2 is right, why didn't you provide your visa information to the employer in the past month? Most places want to keep it on record. If nobody asked you for the info, then even HR is incompetent, or they were not told your visa was issued. Did anyone know you got it? When?

westbrook1 · Joined: 11 Jun 2011 Posts: 45

The annoying/fishy thing is that OP won't simply explain why he was fired. What did you do wrong, specifically, in their eyes? Your quoting your boss doesn't offer anything at all. I'm not even in Japan, but am curious as to the cultural differences in teaching if they indeed fired you for 'teaching in a western way'.