Job Discussion Forums

[I'm With Stupid]

Hanoi has come 147th out of 221 cities in the annual Mercer quality of living survey. Saigon came in at 149th. This report is specifically written for companies looking to send workers overseas, so is particularly focused on the expat experience. Both cities did a bit better on the personal safety scores at 110th and 119th respectively.

For regional comparisons:

25 Singapore
49 Tokyo
70 Hong Kong
76 KL
80 Seoul
85 Taipei
101 Johor Baru
109 Beijing
119 Guangzhou
127 Chengdu
121 Bangkok
132 Shenzhen
134 Nanjing
140 Jakarta
147 Hanoi
147 HCMC
169 Vientiane
186 Phnom Penh
196 Yangon

In terms of personal safety:

8 Singapore
31 Kobe
=31 Nagoya
=31 Osaka
=31 Tokyo
=31 Yokohama
36 Hong Kong
75 KL
=75 Johor Baru
94 Beijing
=94 Chengdu
=94 Guangzhou
=94 Jilin
=94 Nanjing
=94 Qingdao
=94 Shanghai
=94 Shenyang
110 Hanoi
112 Shenzhen
119 HCMC
144 Vientiane
160 Bangkok
173 Manila
181 Jakarta
190 Yangon
193 Phnom Penh

In case you're wondering, Vienna won it......again.

[inhanoi]

I'll take Hanoi over Vienna any day. Surveys like this are too broad to be useful.

[mark_in_saigon]

I love to see hard data like this. While I do not discount the general truths in such information, I also think what is important are the goals of the individual, and his ability to adapt to the particular location.

We were just discussing real estate transparency on another thread here. The data shows that VN has one of the worlds worst scores in that regard, yet one poster has used his knowledge to successfully navigate property ownership here.

A problem with this kind of data is that the raw numbers coming in have to always be suspect, and so the final answers can be misleading. I just read another story about traffic accidents here, and again, the reported deaths is higher than the reported injuries. I have seen similar reports in the past. This is just crazy, there is no way that most injuries are so severe they cause a death, and that a smaller number are survived. So, one must conclude that over here, we never know what the reality is, but it is likely misleading, and perhaps worse than what we think. Of course, if comparing HCMC or HN to some other Asian city, the same may be true for the other city as well.

I find that the poverty and the general difficulty in life is actually the reason that some of the rewards can be so great. It is the other side of the coin. Yeah, it is poor, but look at what it does to your expense profile. If we can find a way to cope with the negatives, then the positives are a lot higher because of these negatives.

Thanks so much for this information, I am sure I will try to find it and study it, and hope it will add to my knowledge. While this kind of thing is fascinating, I don't think it matters too much how low a country rates in any particular category, unless the subject studied is of great importance to the expat (or potential expat) making his decision on where to go. We all know that these cities are pretty nightmarish, yet I would assume that most of them could also be rewarding in some way to some expat, assuming they provided the particular experience he/she was seeking. In HCMC, most people hate the traffic, and I do too, in a lot of ways. But, I am in love with the old classic Hondas, find them to be very discounted, easily restorable, quite dependable, and so, they are one of my great joys in life. Driving such a vehicle is a blast, even without going to warp speed, just bringing it thru the gears and there you are, it is hell, it is heaven, it is up to you.

[I'm With Stupid]

Good luck finding it, but I believe the full report costs a few thousand dollars. It does include a far more detailed account of each city than just a ranking though.

[inhanoi]

So these are "hardship allowance" guidelines. In other words, a person assigned to Vienna should get nothing extra, but someone assigned to HCMC should receive a cash bonus due to their "suffering." I believe the US government actually gives tax breaks for assignment to these cities as well.

These ratings are hardly relevant to the average English teacher, Mercer is targeting companies and governments who pay western wages to their pampered employees, the "rent-free villa with pool, car and driver" types. As if these clowns need an extra incentive on top of all that they receive.

[base5555]

Totally irrelevant, all depends on how you define quality of life. However after being in Hanoi for 2 years I would have to agree it is towards the bottom. At first you find the people charming, but come to find out they will rob you every chance you get. Like living with a bunch of gypsies, hahaha. With that said, the pay here is quite good so you can get a good quality of life.

[LettersAthruZ]

[I'm With Stupid]

All of this information is on the Mercer website.

Personal safety includes both levels of crime and law enforcement effectiveness. I suspect it's on the latter that Vietnamese cities fall down. I'd guess that the chances of catching your Austrian mugger are far higher than catching the Vietnamese pickpocket (although I think that's rather underplaying the risk posed in Vietnam, because a decent percentage of thefts I've been told about came with the risk of being dragged down the street by a motorbike, and in some cases, that actually occurred). It also includes political stability and international relations, which I'd guess is a strong point for Vietnam, in comparison to similarly developed countries.

Anyway, I'm not suggesting this list is some sort of universal truth, I just thought it was interesting.

[just noel]

[I'm With Stupid]