Job Discussion Forums

DosEquisX · Joined: 09 Dec 2010 Posts: 361

How quickly are you able to get a feel for how competent your upcoming FAO is? Are there any immediate hints (bad language/grammar, late returns for phone calls/e-mails etc) that tell you to GTFO even if the deal is good?

I have received an offer from a university. I accepted it, negotiated the specific of the contracts and have come to an agreement. I have sent all of the necessary paperwork for a work permit except for the contract.

However, the FAO stated that he will not be able to get the paperwork completed before winter vacation begins. So, I would be going back to the states for vacation without even a work permit for the new job.

This is a pretty risky proposition. I sign the contract and hand in all of the paperwork necessary for the work permit and then put it in the hands of my future employer to make good. I don't like the idea of my FAO waiting so long to do it. I asked if it was possible to get at least the work permit before I leave but he said that he can't do it. I figure if I at least get the work permit then I am guaranteed to get the Z visa when I am in America.

Can I trust him? My thought was to send him the contract but continue to pursue jobs in the meantime in case things fall through. Is this the right move? It would strange (maybe illegal) to commit to two schools for the same semesters.

The Great Wall of Whiner · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing

If someone shows up at his doorstep after the holiday, or his job is shuffled after the holiday, all your effort will be in vein.

eslteach · Joined: 28 Sep 2010 Posts: 94

For the most part, the FAOs I have dealt with were my nicest co workers. Generally trustworthy, I would say.

w.melon56 · Joined: 11 Aug 2011 Posts: 31

Please don't attempt to generalize any group of people. Each Foreign Affairs Officer (FAO) is who they are. They are not all the same. It's rude and unprofessional on all levels to make assumptions and "racial" preconceptions because they are "Chinese FAO's," etc.

And, for the record, if an FAO's poor spelling, bad grammar, etc. is an indication of quality or expectations, you should proofread your own, original post (not attempting to be the grammar police, but simply pointing out the black-kettle issue).

Miles Smiles · Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1294 Location: Heebee Jeebee

Which paperwork is he talking about? Depending upon the province, his distance from the province, and his personal motivation, he does have time to get the paperwork to the provincial government.

However, if his school shuts down before the first week of January, it would be a time squeeze.

Personally, I'd keep looking, and keep him on a string. At some point, cut him off.

You asked about reliability of FAO's. My experience, observation, and experiences related by other FTs is that the older the FAO, the better, especially if it is a woman who speaks English. Under age 30, if she represents herself as the school's FAO, she's probably a waiban for a non-English speaking FAO who may be a man (which, in my experience and observation, is generally bad news). I've worked with 28 year-old waibans who have literally broken down and cried when I explained that despite what they want me to do, I had a legally-binding contract that forbade them from doing certain things. These two were not well-suited to their jobs.

In a city where I worked in '06, there was a waiban who thought it necessary to march the FTs out for medical checks every six months. After I was subjected to five X-rays in rapid succession, I called it quits and announced that i wasn't going to play anymore. Incompetence x2 is dangerous. This was before money is as tight as it is now.

The waiban I have now is quite reliable and consistent. She does not return emails, respond to text messages, and does not answer her phone. She manages to get paperwork finished on time because she requires documentation about a month before she actually submits it. Her lackey can take his happy @ss time processing it between desktop computer games.

Try to find out how old your FAO is and whether she is a waiban or an actual FAO. If she's under 40 or so, she's probably a waiban and has no authority whatsoever. Decisions and responses will take forever. If she's over 40, she has matured and has a bit of self-awareness, and has a good amount of time invested in her career.

The best FAO I've ever worked for was a senior party official who, at age 50 managed not to be forced into retirement. At age 55, she was still holding the fort, and she had a well-trained and disciplined staff. She retired at age sixty, well past the required retirement age.

In your application process, assume the worst.

Baozi man · Joined: 06 Sep 2011 Posts: 214

I would not trust an FAO unless I had no other option. He may be planning to get rid of you in the manner you described. Once ur in America, wutchu gonna du bout it, huh?

It is possible to do the whole process in a couple of weeks. Sometimes, the provincial FAO, just out of pure meanness, will let your documents remain in his office without stamping them. In fact, they can be obtained in matter of minutes, if the FAO is so inclined.

Some people feel good knowing they have spoiled your vacation.

I'd say your situation is not good.

The Great Wall of Whiner · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing

peewee1979 · Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:09 pm Post subject:

Don't trust them and don't believe a word they say.

If they REALLY wanted to give you a job getting a work permit for you before you leave would be their number one priority as it does in fact make their job much easier for you to get a Z VISA while you are home.

Based on their reluctance to do this then they are just stonewalling you.

And like someone else said, the moment someone else walks in that door and maybe they have a resident permit already, you are a fleeting thought because someone with an rp just made their job much easier.

If you really want to work there be demanding and perhaps line up something else before you go.

Miles Smiles · Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1294 Location: Heebee Jeebee

rogerwilco · Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Posts: 1549

I have not had any pleasant male FAO's. The ones that I have had have all seemed bitter and resentful.

The female FAO's that I have had have ranged from adequate to very good.

xiguagua · Joined: 09 Oct 2011 Posts: 768

You could pursue other jobs as well. If they don't get you the proper documentation then they can say they found someone else just as easily as you can. And nothing is wrong with asking prospective universities how fast they can get you the visa. If you find a good position and they can get you the visas and permits in what you feel is a timely manner, then there you go.

I've had female FAO's that were completely incompetent and i've had male FAO's that were really good, so you can't base things on sex either. I judge them on how fast they solve the few problems that I encounter.

DosEquisX · Joined: 09 Dec 2010 Posts: 361

Now, what if I do hand in the contract to the university? The odds of actually getting the paperwork is shaky in my case. Logically, it would be best to pursue another job in the meantime as a backup rather than stay in limbo for an unreliable FAO.

However, what if you accept another job and both universities do all of the necessary paperwork? I have signed two legally binding contracts and one of them must be broken. Seems unlikely that you can get away with this. Otherwise, people would be signing a dozen contracts and cherry picking whichever one gets the paperwork in first.

In other words, do I have to throw my hat over the wall when I hand in all the necessary paperwork to a potential employer and cease my search?

I suppose this is one of the advantages of having a recruiter. With an additional party having a stake in job hiring, it could induce cooperation from an employer who would be more prone to sitting on their hands during the paperwork process.

The Great Wall of Whiner · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing

[quote="Miles Smiles"]

Cyberkada · Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 306 Location: Xi'an, China

[quote="The Great Wall of Whiner"]

wangdaning · Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 3154

I have actually been told not to talk to the FAO. Reasoning was it confuses them. There is an intermediary to put across the message. I am too blunt I guess, even when I speak in Chinese. I don't like to beat around the bush.

I will say that signing two contracts before you get the documents is not a problem. Your contract is not really valid if you don't have employment with a company. There shouldn't be any clauses that mention pre-employment restrictions.

Maybe a good thing to do is politely let the person know that you will be looking around while they drag their feet. They might speed things up.