Job Discussion Forums

[longdistancewalker]

Hello,

I'm looking at countries to teach ESL in. I'd like to work in a place to save money, but I favor people, food and location over dollars. I don't drink, I'm interested in access to English language books (literature, etc), a beautiful city to live in, and excellent travel destinations. I can omit many western conviences. I'm strongly considering Hanoi if there are positions. Thank you to anyone with a helpful response!

Here are my questions:

What is a likely number for a first year ESL teacher (Male, 30's, B.A., TESOL certified) to save after the first six months in Vietnam, supposing some travel ?

Long long is a standard contract ?

Is it acceptable to work two jobs with different schools ?

Is apartment wifi (at charge) a standard ?

Is it a standard to rent an apartment cheaply to live on one's own ?

Are there any tips on finding a roommate that fits one's lifestyle ?

[DNK]

Food: really depends on you. Personally, I find VN cuisine fairly unpalatable for everything outside of pho?, some soups, the various banhs, and basic rice dishes. Do you like rice and ____ ? Noodles and _____ ? Okay, it will be fine, but it's no Thai food or Indian food or anything (although in HCM they have plenty of those). Basically, the best food here is imported, imo of course.

Books: ship from overseas. Usually will cost $15/book to ship. There is basically nothing here. There are some bookstores with a pretty paltry selection. If you like romance fiction or the NYT best-seller list, maybe it's enough. If you like anything other, especially good fiction or about anything non-fiction, you need to ship it (or download and print, as many do).

Saving: depends on a ton. How much do you want to work, how much and where are you going for this travel, what are your typical spending habits? Could be $4000, could be $400. I think $2000 is reasonable if you're trying, but you need to also save for: trips home, Tet holidays, a motorbike, and a work permit. First 6 months is probably going to be savings-neutral, once you factor in set-up costs, finding a job time, and finding where all the deals are, plus saving up a return ticket and paying off the original.

Public transportation: as they say on this here internet, LOL. Find another country if that's your thing. Basically: really crappy buses that don't run after like 8PM that most of your students will avoid like the plague and that make the traffic/air here that much worse. People say they help trffic and pollution, but those people probably haven't ever driven behind one.

Visiting Thailand and Cambodia, of course it's common. Most have to just to get a new visa, but they are common destinations, as most people have this desire to get out of the country as often as possible. This will especially be the case if you work somewhere like you probably will work: HCMC or Hanoi. Good expression I've heard: "the point of living in HCM is getting out of HCM."

Two different jobs: tons do it. Every school is different, but it's fairly common at mine at least.

Privates: most do it. I mean, who exactly is going to enforce this "law" anyway? The police doing random checks of foreigners in coffee shops with VN people? Schools? As my friend says, "the police are mostly there for luck." I suppose there are other reasons for their existence, but enforcing such laws certainly isn't one of them.

WiFi: the internet here is a bit crappy wherever you go. Sometimes domains are accessible, sometimes you need a proxy service. Facebook is down today on my provider. It might be up tomorrow or later today, then down the next. Phases of the moon and feng shui? Best explanation I've heard. WiFi is usually baked into the price of apartments, though.

Renting solo is never the cheap option... Land here is not cheap at all (HCM), but good deals can be found outside of the central areas. There are good threads on this on the first page, such as: "renting: a landlords' market".... . (hehe, that structure drives me mad)

[inhanoi]

You asked about Hanoi. Frankly, there are so many posts and replies on here that answer your questions, it'd be a good use of your time to scroll back. That's not intended to be rude toward you, it's a sincere bit of advice.

You gave your age and gender but left out the most important information: your qualifications. If you want to teach at a reputable school in Hanoi you'll have to comply with the Work Permit requirements. Do this and your immigration issues will be taken care of, as well as health insurance and paid holidays. If you don't qualify for a WP you can still find jobs in Hanoi, but these jobs are with schools that aren't always reliable (after all, they are breaking the law, so your rights aren't going to be important to them). Also, without the WP you'll be leaving periodically to get visa renewals in neighboring countries, which is an annoyance and an extra expense, or a nice reason to travel a bit.

Bookstores? Hanoi is blessed with a wonderful shop called Bookworm. Not only do they have a great inventory but they can also order some titles for you. Or get an iPad or Kindle, why worry about a bookstore?

As you read through past posts you'll find a wide variation in the opinions on Hanoi. Wonderful changes of season, although the mid-winter bleakness and cold can bring you down. Lovely neighborhoods and architecture, lots of character. Also trash, constant noise, pollution and awful traffic. Lots of great restaurants, bars and cafes. My experience has been that the people (especially the students) are wonderful, although you'll read plenty of negatives on here as well.

The other things that DNK wrote about HCMC generally apply to Hanoi as well. Rents are a bit more expensive, it's the capital and there are a lot of high rollers here. Stay at a guesthouse when you arrive, and take your time looking for a place near to where you end up working. There are lots of people (not only teachers) looking to share accommodation, so you could possibly get in on a house share for $250-$400 a month (nice places, balconies, pvt baths, shared kitchen, etc). Apartments possibly for $350, but someplace pleasant will be a bit more.

[travelinhobo]

The first poster gave you most of what I was going to say. Let me just re-iterate that half the buses end at 6pm and the other half 8pm. Assume the bus you need ends at 6. I've been told this is the same all over the country, not just in HCMC. Unless you get lucky and live near your school where you have classes at night, you will need some other form of transport. Many buy/rent a motorbike, but you legally need a license to drive, so you're risking yourself if you get into an accident. Foreigners are permitted to obtain a VN driver's license - you can search on line for that info. As for finances, we can't answer that since you want to know AFTER your travel expenditures. How do we know how you travel?

I live in Bien Hoa, which is a city near HCMC. If your plan is to come to Vietnam and work in language schools, good luck! Down here the schools will give you piece-meal work. 3 hours here, 4 hours there, etc. 2 schools? No, you'll have to work for a lot more. Also, something that I NEVER read about before coming is the Vietnamese teaching method. It is NOT like any other I've encountered. You will have a Vietnamese teacher in your classes for the young crowd. Supposedly they're there for behavior problems and to help if the students don't understand the foreign teacher. Go figure. But more importantly, due to the economic straits of the Vietnamese, because they can't afford a native teacher, you will only teach a class once a week. The class will take place 3 times a week (MWF, for example), but the native teacher will only see the students on one of those days. So you won't be able to get to know the students well, you won't remember their names quickly, you won't be able to help them as you wish (if you're a real teacher). This is frustrating. That said (though it's the most important thing said), it's rare to find a student who doesn't want to be in class or doesn't want to learn English.

If you want info on Hanoi, there's an excellent forum website called thenewhanoian.com.

[DNK]

On licenses: huge PITA. If you're in HCM, you must travel outside the city basically to do the driving test, and the location is quite hidden. Then, you drive in a figure 8 and around a corner. Lovely waste of an afternoon (and a full day prior just getting all the documents in line). Cost isn't that bad, though, about $35 or less total, including the medical check ($10 for that). Many don't bother, and it's not usually a problem, although it can get quite expensive, I've heard, if you get into issues (impounded bike, hacked up by parts thieves, think it's $100 to get it back).

But, I've not had issues getting full hours at 1 school. I regularly turn down hours, plus most of the teachers here that I know are also content with teaching opportunities. Given the work permit issues now developing, though, this might change for me. Honestly, I've not had any of these issues travelinhobo talks about. Not sure if that's representative of the major chain schools in the city proper.

[inhanoi]

There is definitely full-time work, working at one school, in Hanoi. Bien Hoa isn't representative of much other than small-town Vietnam, where most ESL teachers will never teach.