Job Discussion Forums

[Landon]

I know there have been similar threads but I wanted to post our specific situation and questions in hopes of some informed feedback.

I am a native English speaker with a college degree and a US passport. My wife is a non-native English speaker born in Peru. She has lived here for many years and speaks English fluently, holds a college degree from a US State University in Education and currently works as a public school ESL teacher. She is also a US citizen and has a US passport.

Although we have been researching and planning to teach English overseas for some time, we just recently found out how strict the "native speaker" requirements are in certain countries. We had been seeing this requirement on job postings but we dismissed it as not pertaining to us and not being that important. Come to find out, countries like Korea take this very seriously and it is actually the government that will not allow the working visa for someone that has not been an English speaker since birth.

So, my question is, is this really a big deal? How do they really know? Her English is perfect and she is fully "Americanized". The USA is a melting pot of all ethnicities, who all speak English. So, just because she appears as Hispanic/American, just like the majority of the population does where we live in Texas, it doesnt really mean anything as far was speaking English. Are school transcripts from early childhood asked for in the visa process?

From your experience, what countries are we able to both work as English teachers and how would you recommend we go about this process? For example, should I procure a teaching position first, and have my wife interview for jobs once we have arrived on my visa? Or should she get her own position and own visa before we leave, just claiming that she is a native speaker? We had been planning on Asia, countries like Korea, Japan, China, Vietnam, but have not ruled out any countries yet.

Also, let me ask this, if it turns out that it is true that she cannot work as an English teacher legally, does anyone know if she would be able to find work as a Spanish teacher in Asia, as that is technically her maternal language? Is there any demand at all for Spanish?

Thank you

[Glenski]

Even regardless of whether her English is perfect, do not call her a non-native English speaker to potential employers. Do not even mention she was born in Peru unless pressed for it. She is American now, and that's all that people need to know.

Her Hispanic looks are meaningless, as Americans come in many flavors physically.

School transcripts are usually not requested for visas. Pick a country, and you'll get a more specific answer.

You listed Japan as a potential target. Come to the Japan forum and sniff around. The short answer is this: the market in Japan is very crowded!

[tttompatz]

She holds a US passport and a degree from a US college/university then for all intents and purposes (even in places like Korea) she is effectively a "native speaker".

We can't discuss Korea on the international forums (you have to go to the Korean forums) but YES, she can get a job in Korea or anywhere else in Asia for that matter, just like you can.

.

[Landon]

Thank you for the replies.

Without getting into detail about Korea in this forum, we have been told consecutively by 3 large recruiting agencies that is it IMPOSSIBLE for her to get a visa and is NON-NEGOTIABLE in many countries. One agency said we must forget about working in Asia completely. All 3 have made it clear that it is not the the recruiting agency nor the schools that have the problem, it is the government that will not allow it, and there is no exception.

Just a passport, college degree and fluency mean nothing. In different ways, these agencies have explained that, Immigration says that the bare minimum to qualify as a "native speaker" means that you have completed at least 10 years of primary and secondary schooling in an English speaking country. One recruiter said, you must have started from no later than 6th grade. Preferably having fluent English speaking parents. And this is asked in the visa process. We have understood that they are more concerned about learning the "lifestyle" and what "life is like" growing up in the USA, UK, Austrailia, etc, than the actual language. Do you find this to be true?

I was just wondering if someone knows how this is asked? Is it just a check mark on application or do they ask for transcripts of these schools attended? We are assuming that this question will come up every time because her passport says her country of birth is Peru.

Of course we want to work legally and are not going to lie in an interview if we are asked. Just wanted to know if these agencies are just blowing us off and there is really no problem or not. I would love to hear about someone's visa process or see what an application looks like.

Perhaps I will do as you suggest and pick a country and start asking in that forum. It is just frustrating to be planning and getting excited about a location and to later find out from an authority that it is never going to happen.

Thanks for the help.

[Glenski]

[naturegirl321]

I'm also married to a peruvian, though my husband has only spent a total of 72 hours if that in the US and that was only to transit to and from Peru and Korea where we live.

Here's the thing: your wife has a US passport. That's what's important. How long has she lived there? Some countries are more lax than others. Some countries require 12 years of schooling in a native English speaking country (Korea), not birth. Just make sure you are in before grade 1! (and those from Quebec in Canada are disqualified), others just want you to have a passport from that country, though having a US degree will help a lot.

As far as them finding out, honestly, I don't know. They could ask you, but as far as paperwork goes, I've only had to give my college transcripts. NOthing further back. I suppose your wife could put US citizen, native english speaker on her CV. that might help. I've never had to show my birth cert, though on my passport it gives that info, which could work against your wife.

Also, as someone who looks Hispanic (but isn't) and has a Peruvian last name (thanks to my husband) I can tell you that it DOES work against you. I've been denied jobs due to it and have angrily ended interviews when they kept pushing me about hwo I learned English. (I was born and raised int he US, my family has been there for over 100 years, with the exception of my mom from Romania, who immigrated when she was 16 mon ths only and English is her only language).

I think your wife should apply to jobs all over What has she got to lose?
Changing your wife's visa depends on the country. In some places it's easy, in others she might have to go back to Texas for the visa. If possible, maybe have her try to get a job offer before you? It'll be easier for you to get a job than her. Provided that you're not too old or heavy (sorry, but that's the reality in Asia)

China is pretty liberal. I have friends that are NNS and don't have citizenship from English speaking countries and teach there. They work longer hours and make less though. I can tell you about Korea as wel, but you'd be better off going to the Korean baord.

Spanish teachers, there are usually positions in most countries, THOUGh, they usually go to those who are married to locals. Maybe she could look at teaching online as well?

What about her career now? Is she a teacher now? If not, then maybe she could find work in her field, or get transferred abroad, or work for the same company online? She could try to set up her own bsuiness, tutoring Spanish, import, export, etc. There's lots of possibilities.

[naturegirl321]

[Landon]

I honestly thought the best way to go about his was through a recruiter. Hmm. One reason is because in all my research and inquiries directly to the schools for a CELTA program overseas, I received only one reply. One response out of dozens. I concluded very quickly that if a school that will potentially get a couple thousand dollars from me and possibly a new future English teacher will not respond, I will have no chance inquiring and sending my CV around Asia on my own.

To answer your questions, I lived in Lima after college and taught English as a volunteer in a Christian church and that is where I met my wife. She already spoke English quite well when she came to the US in March 2005 and we were married. Her English was obviously good enough to immediately enroll in a State University and complete her degree in Education with highest honors in 4 years. And yes, she has been working as an Elementary school teacher for 2 years. The school district she works for requires all teachers to complete Master's degrees, so, she is working on that as well.

Yes, I dont think I will have a problem finding work myself. I am caucasion with a college degree, some graduate level courses, have a lot of volunteer type teaching experience (We both head an ESL ministry at our local congregation), and speak 3 languages fluently. And no, I am not old or heavy. I am 29 and a part time Certified Personal Trainer. We are only concerned about her, and only recently since we have been getting shut down by the recruiters. It was a shock to us.

We have researched this for some time, however, it looks like we have not been asking the right questions. If we should be going straight to the schools in our job hunt, do you have any tips on how to go about this? Job search engines, etc. Do the schools respond to emails? Not for me so far.

Another question, would we fair better looking for work as a teaching couple? I have read that this is prized in the ME. Or do you think it is best for her to find work first and for me to sneak into a job behind her?

Thanks again for the responses. I am excited to hear this feedback.

[naturegirl321]

recruiters work for the schools. They care more about the school than you.

Though you mean that you're contacting the TEFL training programmes for CELTA and they're not getting back to you? Sometimes they have programmes just for their own teachers.

TEFL training programmes and employers are very different. YOu'll never know if you have a chance if you don't try sending out your CV:

SInce she's a licensed teacher, have you consider intl schools? Better pay and benefits than institutes. Actually, that kind of changes things. Your wife might have a better chance of getting a job than you do at least better pay. Though she's an ESL teacher, so that might put a damper on things. COuld she get certified in something else as well? Like primary education? ESL positions at intl schools may be filled by locals. I know that it was pretty easy for me to get P3, ESL, and Spanish certified. Though I wouldn't advise your wife to do Spanish. Primary might be good though.

I'm confused though. You say she teaches ESL and then you say she teaches primary. Is she ONLY teaching ESL or does she teach other subjects? What is / are her license(s) in?

I think your best bet is for your wife and you to look at jobs in countries where you can both work and where they often get work visas, rather than work under the table. Have your wife go to intl school job fairs. She'll get a job offer before you since they often plan ahead much more than local institutes. Then you can start looking for your own job. You'll both be on your own visas. She'll probably get housing with her job and you could ask for a housing allowance instead.

As for the ME, your wife might get a job, but without teaching experience and an MA, it'll be harder for you.

See my PM.

[Landon]

She is certified to teach primary. Technically she currently teaches Bilingual First Grade. Students learn all subjects as normal but in two languages at the same time. Subjects in Spanish on Monday and everything in English on Tuesday, ect. Bilingual Education is very popular here in Texas. But yes, she is a normal primary teacher, currently certified to teach Pre-K through 4th grades, but other certs only require a test to aquire.

I, really didnt think that these countries were looking for certified school teachers as much as they just wanted a Certified English Speaker. In this case, which would be better for me, a CELTA or an Alternative Teaching Certificate here in the US? Both cost about the same and can be completed in a short amount of time. Would a US teaching cert put me in the same boat as her? I am sure I could have that in 60-90 days. I had planned on enrolling in a CELTA right away because I thought that is what was the most important.[/quote]

[naturegirl321]

[Landon]

Thank you so much for the information. You are right I didnt understand this about international schools vs public and language schools. I was thinking that these countries had plenty of local teachers to teach regular subjects and brought in English speaking foreigners specifically for English.

Now I am intrigued about international schools. Is the entire school taught in English or are there other languages as well. I assume its English as that is the international language.

It does seem that an intl school would be less worried than a language school about place of birth and acent.

A question about my teaching qualifications; First, am I correct in thinking that an American teaching license is prefered over a degree and license from a foreign country? And second, if I was to get a teaching license in the States and then landed an ESL job overseas, would that ESL experience count as teaching experience toward my license? And would I then have the experience to go along with the license to work in an intl school as a teacher?

I have some new things to think about now and we are getting excited because just a few days ago we were basically told that we should give up.

[jpvanderwerf2001]

Language schools are usually for-profit entities which care less about education than money. As such, students want to see the "native" come in and entertain (or sometimes even educate!).
International schools are meant to be institutions where education is foremost. Therefore they tend to hire the most qualified, not the most native-English-looking.
In international schools, having an American teaching license is definitely preferable.
I think experience in international school settings would count much more towards experience than teaching in language schools. However, I would check with your state licensing requirements on that.
Good luck

[Glenski]

[naturegirl321]