Job Discussion Forums

[jyl2011]

Hi there.

I've posted a few times on these forums with regards to my situation. I am looking for a place to move to (with my South Korean wife) and I am looking for a place where we could both find suitable employment, for instance: me teaching English and her teaching Korean. I reckon Beijing is somewhere where we could do that so I have a couple of questions if you guys don't mind taking the time to answer! Thank you in advance...

1. I want to find a job in Beijing and having had some nasty experiences with shady employers I do not want to replicate any of my past mistakes. My correspondence with Chinese schools and recruiters has been abysmal and finding someone with integrity seems nigh on impossible. My question is whether I can find a good job in Beijing with the following credentials, bear in mind that I do not want to be teaching little kids (nursery / kindergarten).

- Degree (4 year) English Literature / American Literature and Italian.
- TEFL (Online 50 hour course with TEFL England)
- Private teaching experience (UK/Italy and South Korea)
- Classroom experience (6 months with young learners in South Korea)
- Teaching related experience ( 1 year teaching business English and translation based activities for a company in Italy)

Any insight into the Korean teaching market would also be appreciated.

Thanks again!

[max81]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Well, apart from general things in the context of teaching in China or introducing ourselves, we are not allowed to talk about teaching in South Korea here; you'll have to register separately on the Korean Forums and ask your Q's there. I taught in South Korea for about 3 years and found the Korean Forums on Dave's helpful; head on over to the Korea forums. Lots and lots of people to answer any of your questions.

As for coming to China, if your heart is set on Beijing, the whole Beijing, and nothing but Beijing, then all the answers I offer you are just for BJ and not other places around China.



1. Your qualifications fall short of the legal requirements to teach in China. By law, they ask for 2 years' experience and a real university degree. Seem you have only 1.5 years? If I would you, I'd stretch that to 2 years somehow by 'adding some flour in the ground beef'. I'm not suggesting lying, but I do suggest take into account other teaching opportunities (no matter how insignificant they might have been) and add them onto your years of experience.

2. Nasty experiences with shady employers: the difference here is that getting cheated is not so obvious. They are so much better hiding the truth or keeping the truth from you or simply explaining things in such a way that seem 'acceptable'. Truly, while the vast majority of foreigners in that other place you have experience in are by-and-large united when faced with employment issues (being lied to, cheated, unfair treatment) here the foreigners are divided between those that know what is going on and those that do not know or simply refuse to believe what is going on. A small fraction of them might even be part of what is going on! Yes, there are some up and up schools that are 100% legal and legit, but they seem to offer less with more working hours.

3. In Beijing, you will be competing with 'teachers' who have not even finished high school, or are 18-20 years old, criminals, teaching freelance, expats' husbands/wives or even their kids, a host of non-native English speakers... and your wife will also have a lot of competition as well in the form of Chinese Koreans who are legally allowed to work in China, South Koreans working for FREE (missionaries), or wives of South Korean businessmen who have nothing else to do all day.

4. Keep in mind that a 'good job' will be a legit school and all us foreigners (this will be both you and your wife) are facing a potentially massive tax increase in 2012 sometime, which could be as high as 47%. Also keeping in touch with family/friends on Facebook, Twitter, etc. or using Youtube or even having sporadic internet problems may affect you. Yes, you can find a good job. But that depends on your definition of 'good job'. Look at international schools as a start. Some may yet be shady, but perhaps your wife can help you negotiate a good job at a Korean one.


Good luck.



Disclaimer:

These answers are based on my experience only, others' experiences may differ.

[7969]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Yes, let's be very clear on the tax:

It is simply unknown how school bosses will deal with the new tax. Will they:

1. Raise the fees for students

2. Lower the salaries for foreign teachers

3. Absorb the cost themselves from their own personal pockets

4. Combination of all of the above

That is why I said potentially... no sense sugar-coating a potentially major expense. It would be rather terrible to be told of a 10,000 RMB a month job but after working a whole month only receive 53% of that because of the tax.

Also do not forget that it will be retroactive to October 2011, so some foreigners may not even get their salary at all!

[7969]

That's a little bit better, at least in the second post you listed a few possibilities on what might happen, instead of making it appear the foreigner alone is responsible for paying a 47% tax.

There are so many details of this tax that have yet to be worked out (devising a system that allows foreigners to retire in China, how to return contributions if someone leaves the country etc) that I'm not certain we'll see this tax implemented anytime soon. No sense getting too worked up about it at this point and I wouldn't let this dissuade me from working here.

Since you like speculation, here's something to speculate on:

[mike w]

OP:

Define "decent". What may be a decent job to some, may be abysmal to others.

What do you define as "decent"?

[jyl2011]

Thanks for the responses. In terms on the 2 years teaching experience element, does it have to be formal classroom experience or would 6 months of private tutoring do the trick?

Thanks

[jyl2011]

As for a decent job, I realize that this is a little ambiguous.

For me, a decent job involves some of the following:

1. A supportive working environment. Constant teaching related support, ongoing training and feedback from employers.

2. Somebody that actually delivers what they say they will in the contract as opposed to clouding certain issues and going back on their word.

3. Paying me on time without fail.

4. Teaching students above the kindergarten age. (decent for me personally).

[7969]

[steve b]

Surely a decent job is simply one you are happy in?

[wangdaning]

"As for coming to China, if your heart is set on Beijing, the whole Beijing, and nothing but Beijing"

"then all the answers I offer you are just for BJ and not other places around China. "
My idea not GWOW's. Beijing and Shanghai are full of people who live in stupidity. There are great people, especially if you find the displaced. They are odd places, which I dislike. My wife got told her and her family were dirty for being outside the line. I don't feel respect for arrogant people.

Disclaimer, this is not an attack on GWOW, more an attack on conceited BJ and SH people.

Good luck

[askiptochina]

[Non Sequitur]

A Skip to China is exactly right.
Big Korean populations in Dalian and Qingdao. Better environment than BJ in both places.
Surely you and wife teaching reasonably close and able to commute while living together trumps the BJ requirement?
You don't mention wife's credentials for teaching.
The ideal set up would be somewhere like the Dalian Foreign Languages Uni although watch the campus location. At least part of the campus is now out at Lushun which is at least an hour each way from downtown Dalian city campus.
Worst case scenario would be one in the city and the other at Lushun.