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Tokyo-area BOE vs private schools

 
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Tsian



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:43 am    Post subject: Tokyo-area BOE vs private schools Reply with quote

I'm curious to ask about people's experience with teaching in public vs. Private Tokyo area schools.

I have had some experience working part-time in some private shs and jhs schools, and have enjoined the positive team-teaching and lesson planning that has gone on in the school. It seems likely that i will be able to continue full-time at my favorite school full time from april, though it will be through a dispatch company (though not one of the ones with a horrible reputation). However, I have heard that this private school will, in the next few years, be moving to direct-hire, which means if I stay there is a good possibility for future employment.

Conversely, I may have the opportunity to take a BOE direct hire position nearer to where I live.

The BOE would pay around 30man a month, which is similar to the dispatch company (but details for dispatch are still up in the air, esp. regarding insurance)

I'm curious what experience people have had regarding dispatch vs. BOE public schools in the Tokyo area, as
until now I've only been familiar with kita-kanto, where the public schools are seen as superior to private (i.e. the opposite of Tokyo area)

I'm guessing the BOE has better job security, but that the private school will offer a better teaching environment, in terms of having input on lessons. The possibility to move to direct-hire is incredibly appealing of course, since that offers a path forward that I'm assuming isn't available with BOE s... that and only having to go to one school would presumably mean better relations with the teachers and students...

I'd be greatful to hear from anyone who has experience with tokyo-area BOEs vs private schools.

Thanks in advance!
(Sorry if the formatting on this is a little off... written on my phone)
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Inflames



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 486

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Direct hire, for me at least, is far more preferable than being a dispatched employee. I've worked as both and, even being paid more as a dispatch employee, the overall situation was better as a direct hire worker.

Think of it this way - when you're directly hired, you have to satisfy the people at the school. When you're a dispatch worker, you have to satisfy them plus the dispatch company people and their "ideas" regarding teaching.

You can easily be put in a conundrum as a dispatch worker. If you call in sick, they'll get upset. If you're sick and show a movie to avoid cancelling classes (something I did when I lost my voice), they'll get upset if they find out. A friend of mine worked at an ES through Interac. The ES would tell him he could leave early (like at 1 or 2 PM) but his Interac contract said he had to stay until 5. One day an Interac "trainer" showed up at 3 and wound up making a huge thing out of the fact that the school told him to leave (he was on a haken contract paid a daily rate - he was obligated to do what the school told him).

I was sent to a university as a dispatch worker and my boss was a joke. I was watched twice and after the second time I had a feedback meeting. At the meeting my boss discussed reasons why the university chose our company (our company's emphasis on some classroom English phrases was a big point) and how I needed to play more games, such as charades, with university students.

BTW public vs. private school depends on the level. For ES and JHS private schools are better than public primarily because private schools charge substantial tuition. HS is different but generally public schools are better than private schools (some private schools are quite good). All the bad students wind up going to private HSs because public schools won't take them but some private schools need the money.
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seklarwia



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inflames wrote:
You can easily be put in a conundrum as a dispatch worker. If you call in sick, they'll get upset. If you're sick and show a movie to avoid cancelling classes (something I did when I lost my voice), they'll get upset if they find out. A friend of mine worked at an ES through Interac. The ES would tell him he could leave early (like at 1 or 2 PM) but his Interac contract said he had to stay until 5. One day an Interac "trainer" showed up at 3 and wound up making a huge thing out of the fact that the school told him to leave (he was on a haken contract paid a daily rate - he was obligated to do what the school told him).

Not saying that dispatch is better than direct hire (it's not), but I feel I should point out that some things have changed a little since the Heart legal action.

Like I don't have a time that must stay at school in my contract. I'm only required to be there for scheduled periods. My school says that I don't need to come to school tomorrow; Interac says fine and removed tomorrow from my schedule. One school says that next Thursday I can go home after the 2nd period; the Interac scheduler has crossed off all periods after 11am.

I'm not on haken (I'm on GI which is worse!) but my schools often tell me I don't have to come or I can leave earlier (As I've mentioned in other threads; I'm the queen of three-day-weekends). Interac never has an issue with it as long as they are kept in the loop.
I can understand why that trainer made a big deal out of the situation. Think about it: if you'd been expecting to have work one day, you commuted a fair distance out there only to find that the school was closed for the day and nobody had bothered to tell you, you'd be a bit pissed, too.
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Tsian



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inflames, seklarwia, thank you for your replies.

Just a few clarifications.
Quote:
Think of it this way - when you're directly hired, you have to satisfy the people at the school. When you're a dispatch worker, you have to satisfy them plus the dispatch company people and their "ideas" regarding teaching.


This I certainly see... and from a resume perspective I know that having the BoE on a resume looks better than a dispatch company... so that is definitely something im considering. But that said, I really appreciate your insight regarding the benefits, seklarwia. One positive aspect of the dispatch company is I might be able to arrange a day off to free me to teach a day in Uni as hi-joukin, which would certainly be a nice plus.

But really, to me the question becomes whether taking the dispatch and hoping that the private school moves to direct hire (a situation which would definitely be better than the BoE) is worth the risk...

Quote:
BTW public vs. private school depends on the level. For ES and JHS private schools are better than public primarily because private schools charge substantial tuition. HS is different but generally public schools are bette


This is the other part of the conundrum. Though there is one interested BoE where I might have opportunity to teach HS, chances are I will end up in either ES or JHS with the BoE... which I'm assuming means that I will probably be bounced around a few schools. That isn't necessary a deal-breaker, but having experienced the strong team-teaching atmosphere in the private (combined J-SHS) school, it is certainly a minus. (I suspect my strong Japanese ability means that I will likely be placed in ES if I end up with the BoE)

I know the mantra of ESID probably reigns true here, but it strikes me that the BoE job, while good in the short term, might not have very much upward momentum (and is more likely to result in you being put into schools where the teachers dont know how to, or necessarily want to, use you). I've been lucky in that I've yet to experience that sort of situation since, at the private schools I've been to (and the few public schools I have experience with) I've basically been left to my own devices and/or had a good team-planning process with the Japanese teacher.

Again, thank you both for your replies!
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Inflames



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 486

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seklarwia wrote:

I can understand why that trainer made a big deal out of the situation. Think about it: if you'd been expecting to have work one day, you commuted a fair distance out there only to find that the school was closed for the day and nobody had bothered to tell you, you'd be a bit pissed, too.

The problem is that this example isn't what happened with my friend, nor is it analogous.

The trainer got there in the late after (2-3 PM), at the time when he almost certainly wouldn't be able to observe a lesson. There isn't much point for the trainer to go out there then, except to say that they went out there (basically the trainer looking busy).

Either way, the person who got pissed and took it out on my friend was a trainer. Part of being a trainer is to get pissed and not take it out on people (something Osaka Interac has problems with). The funny thing is that the trainer went out there and didn't even bother to ask the school what happened when he found out, he just called my friend (his response was that if the trainer has a problem with it, they need to take it up with the BoE and school).
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seklarwia



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No the problem was that regardless of the kind of contract he had, Interac was his employer and paying his wages and thus should have been kept in the loop that what they were expecting wasn't actually what was going on. If my on-site staff were being paid to work until 5pm but they were bumming off to the pub at 2pm just because they had finished earlier, I would be quite annoyed if they did not inform me because they are still on my time and I have the right to ask them to visit additional clients if there are any and time allows.

I bet if the opposite were true (his Interac contract said that he finished at 3.30 but the school was making him stay until 6 every day) he would have been on the phone rather sharpish despite his haken status.

And believe it or not, it is normal for trainers, managers and helpers to pop in for reasons other than to observe lessons or merely to "look busy". I had managers pop in just to say hello and make sure I was happy on the way back from visiting our city BOE or prefecture BOE. I was normally busy though (at times when my schedule said that I wouldn't be) so one time a manager phoned me just to check that the school wasn't asking me to do things more things then I should have to.
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Inflames



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 486

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

seklarwia wrote:
No the problem was that regardless of the kind of contract he had, Interac was his employer and paying his wages and thus should have been kept in the loop that what they were expecting wasn't actually what was going on. If my on-site staff were being paid to work until 5pm but they were bumming off to the pub at 2pm just because they had finished earlier, I would be quite annoyed if they did not inform me because they are still on my time and I have the right to ask them to visit additional clients if there are any and time allows.


Except they're not on Interac's time - they're on the BoE's and school's time. If the school tells them to leave (on a haken contract), they must leave. Telling Interac occurs when you submit your timesheet (hence that's why you have one). With any sort of normal haken in Japan, if you called them about this, they would wonder why you're calling as you were told to leave and you must leave.

seklarwia wrote:
I bet if the opposite were true (his Interac contract said that he finished at 3.30 but the school was making him stay until 6 every day) he would have been on the phone rather sharpish despite his haken status.

This situation isn't the same. He was paid on a daily rate where he was told to be at the school between certain hours. The school said the work is finished so leave. If they said it's not finished and it can't wait, he would then become eligible for overtime. Normal haken contracts state that you can be held for overtime at their (the place where you work) discretion.

seklarwia wrote:
And believe it or not, it is normal for trainers, managers and helpers to pop in for reasons other than to observe lessons or merely to "look busy". I had managers pop in just to say hello and make sure I was happy on the way back from visiting our city BOE or prefecture BOE. I was normally busy though (at times when my schedule said that I wouldn't be) so one time a manager phoned me just to check that the school wasn't asking me to do things more things then I should have to.

For most people, popping in to say hi with no real reason is the same as doing busy work. I can understand doing it for someone who is new to Japan, but this was someone on their third contract with Interac and had lived in Japan for 6 years at that point. It might be normal at Interac but at every other company I've worked for it certainly wasn't normal.
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seklarwia



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we are going to have agree to disagree.

To me it is quite simple. The problem isn't that he was going home early because the school said that he should. The problem is that he didn't tell his employer that that was going on. He should have because regardless of whether he was being paid per hour, per day or per month; the fact of the matter is he was being paid until 5pm, so they had the right to expect him there until 5pm.

I'm pretty sure that if he had told them that he was in fact only required at work until x time, then the trainer wouldn't have turned up at a time he wasn't there and kicked up a fuss and the whole mess would have been easily avoided.

And this isn't "any sort of normal haken". You should respect the rules of current employer, not choose to ignore them because other jobs don't require you to do whatever. Interac has their rules and they are quite clear that if you are doing anything other than what they have agreed with you in your contract, you should let them know.
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Tsian



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate the description of some of the problems regarding dispatch vs. direct hire. It does sound like dispatch adds another layer of "fun" at times (though I had gathered this from previous forum posts as well!)

In terms of putting up with dispatch if there is a prospect for direct hire, vs. moving from BoE to other work, do you have any suggestions. For what it is worth I am planning to either pursue an MA in TESOL or Applied Linguistics, or get my Kyouiku-menkyo. (I already have CELTA, University teaching experience and an MA in a non-TESOL field)
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pnksweater



Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no experience working for dispatch. I currently work for a board of education, but I have had other teaching experience in Japan.

Working for a BOE isn�t all bad. I�d read the contract over for their policies on taking sick leave, nenkyu, summer and winter vacations. These things can make an okay job really good or really bad. Also, how many schools and what size of schools would you be working at? I teach at six mostly large junior highs and elementary schools. It can be a little crazy at times, but many of my city�s ALTs work for many more schools. IMO 2 or 3 schools is reasonable. If they�re smaller schools with only one English teacher it gets even easier to juggle multiple schools.

There are benefits to working at more than one school as well. I don�t get dragged into extracurricular clubs and activities. If I have an unpleasant class or teacher I don�t have to work with them all the time. Lesson planning is also a bit easier since I can use each lesson plan multiple times. Also, working with a variety of teachers I get a lot of exposure to different approaches to teaching the same material. As an educator this is a major perk of my job. I�ve grown a lot as a teacher over the last year and a half.

I know you�re looking at the dispatch position because you�re thinking of your ALT career in the long term. Working as a direct hire for a private school is a very different animal from dispatch ALT. Many private school ALTs aren�t really assistants at all. They have the same responsibilities and hours of regular Japanese staff� but often without the perks like bonuses, freedom to take nenkyu during the school year, or pay raises. One of the few perks of the ALT position is the low amount of responsibility. When you take that away is it a job that you want?
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