Job Discussion Forums

TYO · Joined: 07 Dec 2011 Posts: 8 Location: TOKYO

Hello!
I'm returning to Japan after a 3 year TESOL stint in another Asian country. I know the salary/pay has dropped, but I didn't think by this much! I have an offer from a smaller dispatch company, and have searched multiple forums for any info regarding typical hourly pay, but haven't found specifics/guidelines/averages (other than 170-300,000/mo).

My offer is for 3 days teaching (15 total 50-min classes of around 15 students) per week. No pay for prep, grading, holidays, etc. No other benefits. They will sponsor an 'instructor' visa.

Questions: (I have 4 yrs ESL experience in Japan, 8 total years exp; on-campus 12 MA-level semester credits TESOL diploma (not full masters); BA; great recommendations including from past Jboss.)

Is Y4000/teaching hour reasonable in 2011-2012? There are many holidays, and about 6 weeks between school years with no pay. I can always go visit relatives during most of that time, and I have a very reasonable apartment lined up (living with a good friend; my own room).
Pros: I could look for other teaching PT jobs. Only work 3 days/week. They DO pay transportation costs. They pay for the 'medical check' needed prior to working in JH/HSs.
Cons: as above, and probably 3-5 unpaid hours/week for prep, grading, maybe attending a few ceremonies.

Do other companies pay a lower hourly rate for 'office/non-teaching' hours sometimes, and is there any room for negotiation before I sign a contract?

Should I look into other possibilities, as some posters have mentioned that Jan-Feb is a better time to get a postion for the April 2012 school year?

Any insight from long-termers or people in my situation would be very much appreciated!

Happy Holidays

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Sadly, salaries for ALT and eikaiwa jobs have fallen in the past 5 years or so. Unless someone does a large survey, I would say that you should expect a wide range of salaries offered, and that no one should accept anything less than 220,000/month.

No pay during breaks? Pass.

Visa sponsorship? Well, get it, and then you can self sponsor after a year.

4000 yen/hour sounds pretty pitiful. I'm glad I'm not in the position to consider it. Most places do pay for transportation.

If they require that you attend for something (meeting or ceremony, etc.), that is considered work, and you should get paid for it. I would say pay or don't expect me to show (or just don't sign the contract).

TYO · Joined: 07 Dec 2011 Posts: 8 Location: TOKYO

Thanks Glenski!
I appreciate your advice and completely agree with you. I'm leaning toward accepting the position for now, if they agree to pay for all required time spent at the JH/HS (except for lunch and minor things like that). They took me to the school to meet the Kouchou-sensei and another instructor, and that school liked me and has requested for the dispatch co. to have me start in January or as soon as my visa is approved.

The initial interview with the dispatch co. went very well, but the 'big-boss' has been away so they couldn't tell me the exact wage. The HR person said 'at least 4000/teaching hr; we can talk to the 'boss' when he's back and maybe more'. I read through a 'blank' contract they showed me, and in a way it's good. I can never discuss hours or classes directly with the school; all of that must be through the dispatch company (or I get fired Smile

). So, I can take your advice and if the school requests me to come earlier than 10 minutes before assigned classes or stay later, or do extra 'tasks', I can tell them "I'm sorry, but you must contact the dispatch co. directly for them to authorize any extra hour or changes, so that I can add it to my pay-sheet". And when the dispatch co. asks me to do 'whatever', I'll get it in writing/at least by email that I can add those hours to my time-sheet and will be paid for them. Alternatively, they could raise the teaching rate or pay me an 'office-rate' for those hours (that's how it was at my previous co. here in Tokyo).

I don't see any way of getting much more than trying what I've mentioned above. I am 90% sure the dispatch co. is charging the school around Y8000/hr, so I'll see if I can negotiate the Y4000 towards Y5000 (OK guys--tell me I'm delusional). Like you wrote, I get the visa, do a good job, and look for jobs in Feb/March. If the job is somewhat 'enjoyable' (I really do like teaching, even naughty JH/HS students), I can always get some more work in the 2-3 days/week I'll have free.

Thanks again, and please post if you have any other thoughts or advice!

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

TYO · Joined: 07 Dec 2011 Posts: 8 Location: TOKYO

Yes, Glenski-- agreed!

I'll give it a shot, and keep on breathing.
As you pointed out, after I have my visa, it's mine. I will do my best for them, but if jerked around I'll give the required notice and hopefully find a better position. The visa is really the most important thing.

At least the yen is strong and I have good housing taken care of for when I return to Tokyo. (the school is in Tokyo, and when I visited looked pretty nice and very clean. I was warned about some of the 'Oni-gakusei' so will be prepared to have a Jsensei step in if they are especially bad!) I have no delusions about the problems I will definitely come across here; but like any job-- it is a job! 1- go to work and be responsible, 2- save whatever I can, 3- keep my eyes open for other work (and generally my mouth closed?), 4- enjoy my friends and the Jlife (repeat)

Any other ALTs or dispatch (BTW, I'll be solo-teaching Eng-- the Jteachers teach the grammar and test materials in separate classes) want to put in their advice; I'm happy to hear some good stories, good and bad!
Best to all...

Inflames · Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 486

Some thoughts I have:

The offer is 15 50 minute classes. Are they counting these as 50 minutes or will they pay you for 1 hour? This is one thing I'd try to negotiate for, if it's not there (one place I work at pays in 30 minute increments so if you work for 40 minutes you get paid for the hour).

What is the policy on cancellations? They'll happen eventually and you'll need to know what the policy is. Some contracts are actually for a certain number of classes so make-ups are required.

For the amount of work (even considering the pay system) the pay is good. Most ALTs get paid around that much for 5 days of work. Getting some work at night (such as Berlitz's fixed part-time contract) means you make a lot of money and have a solid income when there's no school. Realistically you need to make an extra 20-30,000 yen per week to be secure.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

15 50-minute classes x 3 days per week

If you get 4000 yen for those 50 minutes, that's only 180,000 yen/month. Barely subsistence wages.

If you get 50/60 of that 4000 as Inflames hints, you will only get 150,000 yen/month. Intolerable if it's actually labeled a full-time job.

Either way, you're probably going to have to take on other work, IMO. Basic necessities, as I suggested, will pretty much be totally consumed by these low salaries.

Inflames,
Do "most ALTs" really get paid that little for 5 days?

seklarwia · Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject:

Inflames · Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 486

TYO · Joined: 07 Dec 2011 Posts: 8 Location: TOKYO

First, a BIG thanks for your input, Inflames, Glenski, and seklarwia. I appreciate your time replying to my post! It seems the vast majority of posters (also the Japan Times and other recent publications) are bemoaning the truly awful (for us but not for the dispatch companies) and deteriorating state of Japan's dispatch/ALT systems and even some of the direct-hire conditions.

I'm returning to Japan because I have some great friends here (J and gaijin), I�d like to travel around J some more, I actually enjoy teaching/entertaining-in-English most Japanese students, and I can handle living in Japan for several years if I get a decent job. If I want to have a decent standard of living, I'll need to do as Glenski advised and get some other PT work. I had looked into Berlitz as a way to get back, but they have stopped sponsoring new visas (per their ads on g---p-- and I called 2 of their branches). A Kiwi friend of mine was with B for a few years and enjoyed it. My ex-employer here in Tokyo wants to give me a couple of corporate weekly classes and a few privates too--as soon as I get my visa. That company isn�t doing well financially and hasn't hired anyone since I left, so they can't sponsor me even though my old 'bucho/boss' has pleaded with the 'CEO' to get me a minimal contract. But, he stays in touch with me and is a great reference. Yes, I'll need to get more work to feel secure and get some savings going.

I'm realizing that the work I did before (corporate + dispatch-type JH school classes) vs. what I'm being offered now are 2 different animals. Even though I won't be making anywhere close to what I earned before, I usually will have my evenings and weekends free. I won't have to catch multiple trains, transfers, and rush to get to the clients' offices 10 min before class and then do the same to get back to the office/home. I won't have the down time from split-shifts. Big positive for taking this JH/HS job is the 3-day, full-of-classes week. It's 45-60 min door-to-door from where I'll be living. Reality-check: BUT, this can all change after I sign a contract and start working, or when the new year starts in April I could be given a Mon through Fri schedule with lots of unpaid time between classes. They could start Saturday Eng classes in the future (I know that they don't have any Eng on Saturdays right now and I've seen the actual schedule the replacement teacher will have until April).

Inflames, thanks for your questions; it reminds me how important these little things are: I asked 'is the 50-min class the same as 1 teaching hour?' and was told yes, but the contract is not ready yet. It would be crxpy of them to pro-rate 50min/60min X Y4000, but it wouldn't surprise me (I've read these forums for several weeks now, so have heard of all sorts of incredible crxp that they try). --> Yes, I must get this in writing in my contract. Inflames, your question about cancellations is something I didn't think about. I will ask about it on Monday. It would be especially bad in my case if I were to be called up: "Teacher! You don't have to go in Thursday; we're cancelling Eng that day so we can have a xyzyx. See you Monday!" There goes 6 hours and about Y25,000 for me. I need to know if this school does have a set number of classes per term/semester, and if something like a cancellation occurs, is it definitely made up or do I get paid (yeah� riiiiggghht) since the school cancelled or what??? Now if it's ME that gets sick or whatever, then I'm f---d (no teach, no pay sucker! How cruddy is that?), so I'll do like the J do and wear my mask, take the kaze/seki pills, and tough it out at the school and the kids can have a 'writing' or test quiet day while I sit there with a big ruler.

Yes Seklarwia and Inflames, the pay isn't bad for the time spent if they give me 5 hours teaching/work each of those 3 days. There with be mid-July to early Sept with no work during school holiday (NT there told me this), some weeks with only 2 days of work, and some scattered days with only mornings or afternoons. Looking at the Jan-March schedule they sent me, Glenski is pretty close when I calculate what I'll actually be paid. Jan: 180,000. Feb: 230,000. Mar: 100,000 (may be more if I'm needed). Figuring my expenses, I can just get by on 150,000 for rent, food, phone, trains, overseas insurance plan, and eating out once a week. But just 1 air ticket home is 150,000-- and what about Golden Week, mid-July to Sept break, next Dec/Jan?

I'll be looking for other jobs and hope my old boss gets me some evening work. Maybe I can get some private students-- I was so busy with my regular work here before I never really had any.

You all have helped me look at this in a healthier and more objective way and have brought up things I hadn't thought of. Thank You! I'll let you know what happens Monday when I meet with the 'company'. I got a phone call from them asking me to bring my univ documents, photos and passport when I go in Monday. She also mentioned something about going to Immigration and trying to �rush?� the process so I can get approved for an �instructor� visa in early January. I�m here visiting for the past month and I return to spend holidays with family on Dec 21. I�m assuming I�ll wait there until I get a COE or something and then come back to Japan. {{The person at the dispatch co. has no answers to those particular questions today�I hope and I often randomly pray to the Lord that some reassuring answers will come Monday; but that would be delusional thinking and I�d need to be placed on a psychotropic medication after a brief inpatient hospitalization. Wouldn�t look good on my record.}} Do I just ask those questions again (what is the visa process, please explain all of the steps from here on forward so that I understand clearly, etc.) and if no concrete answers come, shall I just play �sheep� and do what they say (if contract is as advertised, and the terms are 50-min class= 1 hour, etc.)?
I'm also thinking that I should keep looking Jan-Feb for something better?? But, I don't know that there's anything better out there for my particular situation; it's just different. What do you think: go ahead and take this, get the visa and try to get supplemental PT work, or would you pass on it and keep looking? Also, is it even possible to get work permission in 4 weeks (if I agree and they submit the docs on Monday/Tuesday)? I've seen recent posters cite anywhere from 2 -8 weeks, and even 3 months sometimes. I know that there's no real answer, but if anyone has very recently (last 9 months) gotten a COE or Change of Status of Residence, I'd like to hear about your experience and how long it took!

Thanks much, and
Cheers Rolling Eyes

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Thanks for pointing out my miscalculations. I blame lack of sleep. By a weird quirk of luck, it still appears that TYO is not going to get paid very well. What employer would consider a FT job to pay a mere 100,000 yen/month? That's a new low record I've seen!

I don't know how they intend to "rush" anything past immigration. The holidays are coming up, and immigration usually tends to work on their own schedules, not that of other people including employers. I am also still very dubious about whether the contract conditions they show immigration will meet with their satisfaction. To say 100,000 yen/month will not cut it, IMO, so I think they will fudge a lot and list a very rough average monthly salary.

That means if it passes immigration, you will (as we have already discussed) need to find additional work. Personally, I would continue looking for a job.

G Cthulhu · Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:46 am Post subject:

TYO · Joined: 07 Dec 2011 Posts: 8 Location: TOKYO

Well, since I'm paid Yzero in August we can take it even further!

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

TYO · Joined: 07 Dec 2011 Posts: 8 Location: TOKYO

Yes, I agree that it'll probably be more likely to take about 2 months (or more) to process. It will take as long as it takes, so I'll just hang out and visit family etc. until I hear from the dispatch company! I guess if anyone reading this has applied since November (last month), maybe he/she could let me know if there were any problems I might run into, and if it was quick or if they're still waiting. It definitely won't change what Immig will do, but might give me a bit of an idea.

I'll see how everything goes tomorrow and hope to get my questions answered. One last question if anyone knows the answer: if I do accept the job tomorrow and the dispatch company takes the docs in, is there a 'case number' or something assigned to that application? I know it won't make any difference in the time it will take to process, but I'm just curious Smile

I'll be leaving Tokyo in a few days, and I'm really looking forward to being home for a few months. I need to stop worrying so much about 'job stuff' and let it go for a while. If tomorrow doesn't go well and I have am not OK with the dispatch co's contract, I can always come back to try again; or try from abroad...

Anyway, best wishes to all, and I hope the holidays treat you, your families and your friends well!