Job Discussion Forums

paisleyavenger · Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 19 Location: South Korea

I'm a high school teacher with heaps of experience. I've taught in Australia, England and South Korea.

I've thought about going to a few places (Canada, Germany, Turkey, Thailand) but haven't made up my mind. Being a qualified teacher (with a masters) I can usually get a bit more money, or if I go to Canada, America or England, I can work in the education system. So I'm looking at both options.

Can people give me some ideas and advice ... what countries (in YOUR experience, not heresay) are good and bad for efl teachers?

I'm mostly interested in salary and benefits (airfare, etc) versus living costs and cultural issues.

If you don't want to type a huge response, at least respond to my poll (assuming I work out how to set it up right!)

khmerhit · Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:52 pm Post subject:

There are two--count em --two international schools in Phnom Penh. Your material concerns will be amply provided for in

cambodia. try it and see Cool

Aramas · Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:18 pm Post subject:

I suggest that you take a more holistic view. It seems that what you're really after is savings potential. Comparing only countries probably isn't a particularly useful yardstick since living costs vary widely within a country. Living in New York is going to be more expensive than Chitlin Junction, Arkansaw.

You should also decide just how little of a life you are willing to settle for. Are you happy tp live on 2 minute noodles and never eat out? Are you happy to drink tapwater and never lash out on a beer?

In my own limited expereince I've found that no matter how much I earn in a big city I always spend it. If I'm unhappy in my situation I blow everything on partying no matter where I am.

I'm planning on moving to a country where I will be paid less than what I would recieve on welfare in my own country, but the difference in how I could live on that income is extreme. Even someone earning a good salary in London, Paris or New York couldn't afford to eat out 2-3 times a day, go clubbing 3-5 nights a week, go away every second weekend and travel in foreign lands for a month or two every year. What I've just described is a fairly ordinary lifestyle for low-paid expats in any number of developing countries.

If savings is all you care about (and if so you'll regret it in later years) then the Middle East has your name on it. Good pay, no life. Nothing to spend your healthy salary on. Still, when you've exhausted your youth you'll be able to go home and buy lots of 'stuff', and that's what it's all about, right? Smile

Scott in HK · Joined: 11 Jan 2003 Posts: 148

I have seen ads for the international schools in Korea...they seem to be hiring...

the NET program deadline has passed but now there are ads for schools trying to find their own teachers....south china morning post is the place to look...

the international schools here are also hiring..that is in hong kong...

paisleyavenger · Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 19 Location: South Korea

Actually, I'm very interested in having a great life. I understand the differences between each country in terms of income and lifestyle ... that's the point of my asking.

i'm not interested in saving, i'm interested in having fun and a good life ... when i was in england it wasn't fun at all ... most of the time i was stressed about money because i didn't earn that much (considering the tax and cost of rent, etc) ...

i want to live somewhere that's cheap(ish) but the pay is relatively good, so that i can have fun and spend money doing things i like ...

shmooj · Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 1758 Location: Seoul, ROK

paisleyavenger · Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 19 Location: South Korea

what???

i understand that each country is different, but because I HAVEN'T been to every country, i'm asking others for their opinion about whether it's worth it. My experience was that England wasn't worth it ... in terms of income versus lifestyle.

do people just post stuff and not bother reading anything in the post??

is this too difficult a question?

are there any people who can post a response to the actual question without coming into a post and just cross examining every fucking statement made?????

Scott in HK · Joined: 11 Jan 2003 Posts: 148

get on with the NET program or an international school in hong kong and if you don't really care about savings...you can have a really good life...the salary will be enough to travel every holiday and enjoy hk's night life...

in fact you can have a good life and save money depending how much experience you have....and what kind of accomodations you are willing to put up with...

Aramas · Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:24 pm Post subject:

Ok, I guess I misunderstood. From your wording it seemed that you were only interested in the money and that culture and living expenses weren't an issue. In retrospect I assume you meant you had already researched those aspects.

What culture interests you the most? What country would you land in and go "holy f###! I'm in <insert country>!" Which one has the best 'cool factor'? Try ranking them, then read up on each country to get a feel for how teaching ESL is there and what kind of life the people are having. Check out the Lonely Planet site for an overview including relative living costs, the Job Information Journal for people's experiences teaching ESL in each country and these message boards for general stuff.

Prague seems to be a favourite, but it's just down the road from you so it might seem a little old hat. Korea seems popular for people who are after the cash, but there are a lot of horror stories. People in Japan seem a little bored, but if you're a rabid manga fan or you think that samurai are the bee's knees then maybe it's just what you need. China is a good backup plan, but it also has a lot to recommend it on it's own merits. Apparently one can get a job there over the phone in an afternoon, although there seem to be both good and bad experiences to be found there.

My hotlist is Cambodia, Vietnam and China, in that order. That might change when I'm in-country. Cambodia is the least regulated with no visa problems and lowest living costs - you don't even have to do visa runs. Vietnam pays better than the other two and visas can be bought over the counter for a year at a time, but you still have to do visa runs. China seems to be the usual employer-sponsored visa deal, which I don't like at all. The more control an employer has over one's life the less reasonable they seem to be. Still, if the others don't pan out then China it is.

It really comes down to what excites you the most. You never know how life is going to turn out and this may well be your one and only Big Adventure. Are you into martial arts, archeology, history, food, bargirls or beer? Are you sick of rampant consumerism or do you want a villa in Ibiza? Look at which countries are most compatible with your interests. Are you married? Do you have kids? If so you might want to head for a 'safe' destination and not consider nightlife or 'prospects'. Affordability of schooling and availability of high quality health care might top your list. Do you hope to find a partner there? If so then there's not much point going to a country where the women are either unavailable or as ugly as a hatfull of sphincters.

It's a bit like buying a CD - lots of people can wax lyrical over something but to you it might be crap. You have to choose for yourself based on how it fits your tastes, needs and aspirations.

Teacher in Rome · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 1286

You could try teaching English within the state education system in Italy. The pay is reasonable (I've heard), but it does entail teaching Italian children. I guess you just have to like teaching children and teenagers!

Most EFL work is freelance, and you'll be running around from company to company all day every day for ten months of the year. You'll need a recognised EFL qualification, and the pay can be on the low side.

The plus side is interesting culture, excellent food, lovely people and diverse landscapes to explore.

In terms of other benefits, practically nobody is going to pay your airfare over here, but the health care system is good. BTW, Ryanair do cheap flights out of Rome, so travelling within Europe shouldn't cost you a fortune.

Personally, I'd choose Italy over Germany any day, but as previous posters have pointed out, you really need to work out what your objectives are.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I have terrible problems in deciding what to have for breakfast.

Similar problems arise in the evening over aperitifs,

What I hate about being grown up is all these damned decisions we have to make !

khmerhit · Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:39 pm Post subject:

SCOT47 is not normally known for its indecision. Ambiguity has been programmed out of the system. A certain prickly stubborness remains, however...

"Open the pod bay door, Scot"

"I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave."

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

FGT · Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 762 Location: Turkey

The choices listed seemed to be very much at odds. Couldn't you have at least short listed them? Eg:-
I like far-eastern culture, is it Thailand, S Korea, China, Taiwan or Japan?
I want to stay close to home - Germany, Spain or, perhaps, Turkey.
I want to earn money (in order to live comfortably in another country) = Saudi Arabia/UAE.
If you really need our help in choosing, perhaps you've chosen the wrong career. Stay home.

kaw · Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 5:34 am Post subject: Where to go

Just to add my bit -
Turkey is a great place to teach - or at least it was a couple of years ago. Although salaries aren't high you'll earn enough to travel a bit and have a decent social life.
The Middle East is fine - although salaries have decreased in all countries there recently. If you want to work in any of the M.E. countries you'll need a tefl cert (at least) and for the good jobs in the Emirates a Masters in TEFL/Applied linguistics. A decent amount of tefl experience is also pretty much of a necessity. Oman is a great place to be - although remember that compared to the oil rich UAE it is still a developing country. Despite what Aramas said in an earlier posting - there's certainly enough to spend your money on - if that's what you want. The decent holidays allow for decent holidays abroad (I spent time in Cairo and Istanbul during my last contract in Oman). There's also plenty of opportunity to save.
As far as the Far East goes - apart from spending a pretty hellish few months in Indonesia I can't suggest anywhere.

Happy Hunting