Job Discussion Forums

[MKR]

Hello, this is a call to hear from women (primarily- but please guys if you have info please give) living in SA. I would like to start a thread specifically aimed at info for us. Although I have seen a something said about the dress code for example, more info would be appreciated. I am in the process of applying to SA (and other). I will do the same for the other ME countries. (note: I'm not completely ignorant about living in an Arab world as I have done so for 9 yrs....but not in the ME)

Questions:

Dress codes: What are your personal experiences in the different cities and institutions? Are they all the same?

Social etiquette: What should one not do (such as looking a man in the eyes, shake hands, question that shouldn't be asked, addressing other women, etc.

Living standards for single women: (usually) does one have their own apt, do we live in only women quarters, how do these living spaces differ in your own experience? Can we have contact, and if so, how much with other male teachers/workers?

Sports/physical activities-gyms-swimming, etc.?

Smoking?

Traveling to our school and also to other cities?

Shopping, can we go alone, are there many choices where to go, what to buy, prices in general?

Are there women doctors?

Is it 'forbidden' to talk about woman's rights?

Other details welcomed! Thanks

[CDAN]

This is a great idea. I wish the thread could have been posted when I was first thinking about coming to the Kingdom. I've done my best to answer your questions based on my personal experience here.

Questions:

Dress codes: What are your personal experiences in the different cities and institutions? Are they all the same?

The dress code varies somewhat from place to place. In public, women must always wear the abaya. In Riyadh and Jeddah, it is possible to go without a head scarf, but it is a good idea to keep one handy just in case. Someone may insist that you cover your head, whether it's the religious police or another Saudi. In more conservative areas, most women, including Western non-Muslims, wear the niqab, head scarf and abaya. It's just easier to blend in.

In universities, you can't go wrong with ankle-length skirts and tops with full- or three-quarter length sleeves. Trousers are usually a problem. It depends on where you are, but expect the work dress code to be conservative. And if you make a faux pas, don't worry: you can always slip the abaya back on.


Social etiquette: What should one not do (such as looking a man in the eyes, shake hands, question that shouldn't be asked, addressing other women, etc.

Aside from a few differences, social etiquette isn't that much different here than it would be elsewhere. Your contact with Saudi men will be very limited, due to the gender segregation proscribed by the country's culture and religion. While it's not necessary to avoid all eye contact, one should remember that any attention or interaction may be misinterpreted. Behaviour that is normal in the West may be perceived as showing either romantic and/or sexual interest. If you meet Saudi women, it is generally considered polite to shake hands and exchange greetings. People are very friendly here, but they tend to be fairly private and a bit reserved. If you overshare, you will probably make other people feel very uncomfortable. As in any new situation, it's probably best to take your cues from the people around you.



Living standards for single women: (usually) does one have their own apt, do we live in only women quarters, how do these living spaces differ in your own experience? Can we have contact, and if so, how much with other male teachers/workers?

It's impossible to answer that one. It depends entirely on where you are and what the arrangements are.

Sports/physical activities-gyms-swimming, etc.?


Most major cities have women-only gyms. The standards and prices vary from place to place.

Smoking?

Women are rarely if ever seen smoking in public. You might get away with smoking at an international airport or in a private room in a restaurant, but it is best to avoid smoking anywhere public.

Traveling to our school and also to other cities?

Again, this is difficult to answer. It depends on your work situation. Most people travel to work as a group on a bus. Travel alone by plane between major centres does not seem to be a problem.

Shopping, can we go alone, are there many choices where to go, what to buy, prices in general?

For anyone new to the country, it's probably best to go out in groups or pairs with other women until you get the feel of the place. Many shopping malls are women and family only, so there isn't a problem being alone.

Shopping here is the same as anywhere, if not better. Prices tend to be the same as they would be in the West. The sales are incredible.

Are there women doctors?

Yes.

Is it 'forbidden' to talk about woman's rights?

It depends on the context. I wouldn't recommend it in the classroom. You would have to use your own judgement in personal relationships.

Other details welcomed! Thanks[/size][/quote]

[MKR]

Thanks so much CDAN!!! If you have been or are there now, can you suggest certain universities and cities that might be better for to apply to for women?

I hope other women use this thread to talk about other women related issues!!!

[CDAN]

I am here now. I've been in the same place for more than a year, so I can't really speak to what universities or cities are the best. All I can say is do your research, either on this forum or by asking potential employers to put you in contact with current and former employees. Ask lots of questions and go with your instincts.

[veiledsentiments]

I avoided working in Saudi and stayed in the other Gulf countries because I didn't want to deal with the dress code or the inability to have my own car.

It can be hard to search up information here, but there have been many threads about women working in Saudi. From what I have read and in discussions with various friends, I would say that the best towns would be Riyadh or Jeddah. (in fact, the only two I would have even considered)

Just one comment on the discussion of "women's rights." It is best for the first year or so to listen and not contribute to this sort of discussion. You will learn a great deal about how things are looked at quite differently in other cultures... completely different priorities. It is easy to put one's foot in it if you are not careful what you say.

VS

[MKR]

Thank you VS. Having lived in 'different cultures' over half my life (quite a long time).....I have immense experience in "how things are looked at quite differently in other cultures". It's not my goal to inform others of my way of thinking but I was/am curious about the precautions to take in SA....and moreover, other women's experiences.....although I already know what to expect.

[posh]

How lovely.

[baa_baa]

MKR, this is a great thread as i am going through the recruitment process for saudi...

we want actually need more input...


Like i hear people talking about compounds. Ill be most likely offered housing allowance. Its not enough for the compounds I contacted them. So heres a question...

Can women live on their own? would it be safe?

Also I need a favor. Upon arrival I would need to arrange an rental apartment. I know compounds are great but I cant afford them. Lol after telling them my intended budget... people dont call back but thats the amount I have been offered. Is it possible that someone post or pm a number of a real estate? I tend to live next to my work. hopefully it will be easy to find a cab...

[scjw]

I enjoyed reading this article about life in KSA from a Saudi's woman perspective.

Foreign Policy online: "What Do Saudi Women Want?" December 2011
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/11/28/what_do_saudi_women_want

Saudi woman's blog: http://saudiwoman.me/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/Saudiwoman

[veiledsentiments]

Key sentence which echoes what I heard from the women who were my students in the Middle East:

An exasperated expatriate in Riyadh once expressed to me how frustrated she was with the requirement to wear an abaya everywhere. She wondered: How do you all put up with having to cover your faces for your whole adult lives? What she didn't realize was that many Saudi women look at her and wonder: How can she walk around without an abaya? How is it that she doesn't feel exposed and naked?

[johnslat]

Very true - but, of course, the expat woman does have a choice.

Regards,
John

[It's Scary!]

[veiledsentiments]

[PeterParvo]

I would say that the best towns would be Riyadh or Jeddah.

I haven't been to Riyadh, but I was under the impression that it's awful, especially for women. I am in eastern KSA and where we are, it's not too bad. And besides, we are just a short jaunt away from letting it all hang out in Bahrain.

[veiledsentiments]

I know quite a few women who have lived and taught in Riyadh... and did just fine. I know women who have worked in both Jeddah and Riyadh and preferred Riyadh.

So...

VS