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DosEquisX
Joined: 09 Dec 2010
Posts: 361
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 Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:19 am Post subject: Contracts - What is said vs. What is written |
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In my job search, I have found that what a university says it offers and what it does offer in the contract can vary significantly.
For example, a contract recently offered to me has a start date of February 1st, but the semester does not start until February 20th. I was told by the dean to be in China by February 17th, but that bit is not mentioned in the contract.
On top of that, a monthly pay date is not mentioned. Now, what if the pay date is the 10th of each month and I come in on February 17th. Is that a ploy that can be used to avoid paying me for the first month of the contract?
In short, which is correct? Do I have to be in China on the contract start date even if the semester doesn't begin until 20 days later? If I do come in past the start date, will that excuse them from paying me (they stated that I would get 5 months pay for 4 months of teaching).
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What other tricks and wordplay are used by schools to "pull a fast one" on us foreigners? I would like to know what to look for in unscrupulous university contracts so I don't get shafted after I sign. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: |
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experience varies. everyone will give you a different answer.
you need to ask the school them specific questions. |
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Cyberkada
Joined: 04 Dec 2011
Posts: 306
Location: Xi'an, China
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Contracts - What is said vs. What is written |
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| DosEquisX wrote: |
In my job search, I have found that what a university says it offers and what it does offer in the contract can vary significantly.
For example, a contract recently offered to me has a start date of February 1st, but the semester does not start until February 20th. I was told by the dean to be in China by February 17th, but that bit is not mentioned in the contract.
On top of that, a monthly pay date is not mentioned. Now, what if the pay date is the 10th of each month and I come in on February 17th. Is that a ploy that can be used to avoid paying me for the first month of the contract?
In short, which is correct? Do I have to be in China on the contract start date even if the semester doesn't begin until 20 days later? If I do come in past the start date, will that excuse them from paying me (they stated that I would get 5 months pay for 4 months of teaching).
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What other tricks and wordplay are used by schools to "pull a fast one" on us foreigners? I would like to know what to look for in unscrupulous university contracts so I don't get shafted after I sign. |
Watch out for the quoted monthly salary vs. hourly/ daily rate. Remember, once you are in China they can change the contract without your approval and you have to live with it what they impose or you have to have a back-up plan (i.e. enough money for a runner). |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 488
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| In short, which is correct? Do I have to be in China on the contract start date even if the semester doesn't begin until 20 days later? |
NO WORK, NO PAY. How hard is this to comprehend newbie? |
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carkcerw
Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Contracts - What is said vs. What is written |
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| DosEquisX wrote: |
In my job search, I have found that what a university says it offers and what it does offer in the contract can vary significantly.
For example, a contract recently offered to me has a start date of February 1st, but the semester does not start until February 20th. I was told by the dean to be in China by February 17th, but that bit is not mentioned in the contract.
On top of that, a monthly pay date is not mentioned. Now, what if the pay date is the 10th of each month and I come in on February 17th. Is that a ploy that can be used to avoid paying me for the first month of the contract?
In short, which is correct? Do I have to be in China on the contract start date even if the semester doesn't begin until 20 days later? If I do come in past the start date, will that excuse them from paying me (they stated that I would get 5 months pay for 4 months of teaching).
----------------------------------
What other tricks and wordplay are used by schools to "pull a fast one" on us foreigners? I would like to know what to look for in unscrupulous university contracts so I don't get shafted after I sign. |
There is little to comprehend in the issue of arriving PRIOR to the working start date to complete paperwork, go to relevant government offices to register you as an Alien Resident, obtain a physical exam if necessary, move into your apartment, obtain teaching materials, schedules, etc. Why is this an issue? Start date and arrival date are hardly the same.
I'd be willing to be the half or more of contracts do not specific a pay-date. You get paid when you get paid. Sure, it's nice to have. However, if you did your proper research, the law provides that you must be paid no longer than every 30 days. Thus, if you get paid more than 4 weeks (30 days) after your last pay period, then your employer is in violation of the contract, and, again, if you did your research or reading, the SAFEA contract provides that you can terminate your contract, and the employer has to pay the termination/violation penalty for contract violation. It's all there, in black and white. Few people at all in China, pay on the first of the month. The typical payday is between the 10th and the 15th.
You don't know these things? You haven't raised these issues with the employer? Why ?
Get "shafted" AFTER you sign? Then why are you signing? You have questions, yet you admit you'd sign the contract, be willing to be so-called shafted. It's your responsibility to inquire and resolve before signing - that simple.
NOBODY here can answer your questions, or give you the policies of the employer - you need to be asking them. You should demand that they pay you from the day that they "require" you to be in China. |
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carkcerw
Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| askiptochina wrote: |
| NO WORK, NO PAY. How hard is this to comprehend newbie? |
While I am direct, I won't resort to name calling. |
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DosEquisX
Joined: 09 Dec 2010
Posts: 361
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Special thanks to cyberkada for responding to my question without name-calling.
Obviously, I did not sign the contract yet. I had the liberty of visiting the school and talking to the dean face-to-face as we went over some terms & conditions there. However, some that we spoke about were not in the contract. I wanted to negotiate a salary higher than what was offered. He refused and instead offered an extra month of salary. Without a pay date, how do I know when I will receive that? I made my inquiries and am awaiting a response.
I merely brought up my situation as an example. I have faced several of these as I was on the brink of accepting an offer. Either something we'd agree to would be excluded or something new would be included without my agreement. As a result, the opportunity fell through. This has happened 3 times to me during my job search so far. |
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Cyberkada
Joined: 04 Dec 2011
Posts: 306
Location: Xi'an, China
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| DosEquisX wrote: |
Special thanks to cyberkada for responding to my question without name-calling.
Obviously, I did not sign the contract yet. I had the liberty of visiting the school and talking to the dean face-to-face as we went over some terms & conditions there. However, some that we spoke about were not in the contract. I wanted to negotiate a salary higher than what was offered. He refused and instead offered an extra month of salary. Without a pay date, how do I know when I will receive that? I made my inquiries and am awaiting a response.
I merely brought up my situation as an example. I have faced several of these as I was on the brink of accepting an offer. Either something we'd agree to would be excluded or something new would be included without my agreement. As a result, the opportunity fell through. This has happened 3 times to me during my job search so far. |
Additionally, something overlooked myself. Is the contract date February 1st? if that is the case and its a monthly salary, pay should start from there, irrespective of the start date. 3 days to report (from Feb 17th to 20th) is ok. Just make sure pay is as contract pay specified, not changed to Feb 17th at the last minute. The start date makes sense as we are all slowly returning from CNY holiday.
What other conditions? extra classes/ english corners/ office hours/ changes in housing? Those can add up.
As the Dean, he should know the standard pay date - its just a short call down HR. |
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DosEquisX
Joined: 09 Dec 2010
Posts: 361
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Cyberkada wrote: |
Additionally, something overlooked myself. Is the contract date February 1st? if that is the case and its a monthly salary, pay should start from there, irrespective of the start date. 3 days to report (from Feb 17th to 20th) is ok. Just make sure pay is as contract pay specified, not changed to Feb 17th at the last minute. The start date makes sense as we are all slowly returning from CNY holiday.
What other conditions? extra classes/ english corners/ office hours/ changes in housing? Those can add up.
As the Dean, he should know the standard pay date - its just a short call down HR. |
Yes, it is February 1st. I only thought that was done because my current contract expires January 31st.
That relieves my biggest concern. Thought I wouldn't get paid if I didn't come in on that exact date. Once I know the pay date, then I'm pretty set. |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 488
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| carkcerw wrote: |
| askiptochina wrote: |
| NO WORK, NO PAY. How hard is this to comprehend newbie? |
While I am direct, I won't resort to name calling. |
The only word I see being perceived as name calling is "newbie". I have never considered that word a part of the family of words under the umbrella term "name calling". Whenever you enter a new system, you are a newbie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbie
"slang term for a novice or newcomer, or somebody inexperienced in any profession or activity"
Name calling has a more negative connotation than this. |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 488
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Without a pay date, how do I know when I will receive that? I made my inquiries and am awaiting a response. |
Tell them a pay date needs to be mentioned in the contract. Any other issues? |
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steve b
Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 293
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| askiptochina wrote: |
The only word I see being perceived as name calling is "newbie". I have never considered that word a part of the family of words under the umbrella term "name calling". Whenever you enter a new system, you are a newbie.
Name calling has a more negative connotation than this. |
It was grossly insulting. You know damned well it was and so does everyone else. |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 488
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| steve b wrote: |
| askiptochina wrote: |
The only word I see being perceived as name calling is "newbie". I have never considered that word a part of the family of words under the umbrella term "name calling". Whenever you enter a new system, you are a newbie.
Name calling has a more negative connotation than this. |
It was grossly insulting. You know damned well it was and so does everyone else. |
Well, if you and everyone else disagrees with me and wikipedia, there isn't much more I can do.
Do you also disagree with this site http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/newbie ??
"Definition of NEWBIE
: newcomer; especially : a newcomer to cyberspace
See newbie defined for English-language learners �
See newbie defined for kids �"
I didn't come here to be attacked steve b, and I didn't mean newbie it to be an insult at all. Can we keep to the topic? If you have a problem, deal with it elsewhere.
I mentioned the dates should be stated in the contract. Does anyone have any experiences with shorter term contracts like winter or summer? |
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randyj
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 460
Location: Nanjing, Jiangsu, China
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Interpersonal relationships carry far more weight in China than words on paper. Too much emphasis on contract wording early on suggests to a Chinese person that a foreigner might become a troublemaker. In my opinion, a wise person overlooks such minor discrepancies, with an eye to establishing some rapport. |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:26 am Post subject: |
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I disagree. . . . to a certain degree. 
For the past two years in my contract, I had taken on an extra job besides my regular teaching. With that extra job title came a TON of duties, for not too much extra pay. At the end of my last contract, I decided I couldn't do this extra job full time AND teach full time. Not only was the pay not good enough for the extra job, but it was also too exhausting to do two full time jobs in the course of a day.
For my current contract, I stepped back from that title and accepted a "lesser" title and had them spell out exactly what my extra job duties would be - - 4 or 5 much more manageable tasks. We agreed to the extra pay (which is actually exactly the same pay as before, just fewer responsibilities) and life is better for me. However, they kept trying to get me to do more duties at the beginning of the school year and I kept politely yet firmly refusing to do them. I would refer to my contract as needed. Now we are mid-year and those requests have decreased considerably and the person assigned to do my previous job seems to be more invested in it now, so all is well . . . I guess.
So I think it IS important to get all your ducks in a row before you sign a contract. Being new at any school is opening the door to possibilities for that school to use and abuse you. You don't have to be a dick about it when negotiating, but I think one should stand firm on issues that are important to them so these points won't come back to bite you in the you-know-where at a later time. Signing a contract in China that you hope to be happy with is never a guarantee of smooth sailing, but at least it's a step in the right direction |
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