Job Discussion Forums

[YakTamer]

I've always been fascinated by this country, despite or perhaps because of never having been there. However, I'm going to get the chance to see it this year - as a tourist.

I see virtually nothing about Laos anywhere (ok, I'm not shocked) but it would be nice to hear from any ESLCafe bods who have been there or even worked there.

Feel free to PM me if you wish.
Thanks.

[Steiner]

I was there for a couple days. In Vientiane. It was beautiful. It was laid-back. It was peaceful. It was relaxing. Then I saw three motorcycle accidents in a ten-minute span during rush hour. The third one was head-on, one guy laying motionless, the other crawling blindly around the middle of the road, blood gushing from his head, while everyone watched, stunned. Then some people ran out, flagged down two tuktuks, picked up the guys, threw them in, and sent them off to the hospital. It kind of colored the rest of my stay.

I was only in Vientiane. If you stay off the motorcycles, it seems like a great place to live.

[gugelhupf]

[YakTamer]

Hmmm...well I was thinking of doing some motorbiking in North Vietnam, may think twice about doing it in Laos though!

[khmerhit]

The main cause of death and injury for foreigners in Cambodia is motorcycle and car accidents.

[daily chai]

Probably so in Taiwan too, Khmerhit. YakTamer, wear a REAL helmet (you might have to buy one in Thailand)--not the goofy baseball hat kind. Those aren't real protection for your head, and they frequently slide back anyway; leaving your forehead exposed. Wear the kind with a built in chin guard and a face visor that flips up. It might be a drag to strap on to your backpack and lug into Laos, but once you have a bike you can lock it to it. Remember, preventable brain injury is much more of a drag.

I wear that kind in Taipei with no prob, even in 40 degree weather. Just inch the visor up to allow more air. At slow speeds in hot weather you might get hot, but it's worth it. I also wear bike gloves on my hands, because your hands are the first thing your body braces with. In the 40s here I even wear a denim jacket (loose enough to flop in the wind) to avoid road rash. That DOES get hot, but I take it off the moment I dismount and have no problems with getting sweaty. Yeah, I've been in three bicycle accidents so I am safety conscious at higher speeds! Take these steps to protect yourself.

[Sheep-Goats]

[gugelhupf]

I plan to buy a motorbike when I get to Indonesia, and have been researching safety gear appropriate for hot climates. For general use, a decent helmet, gloves and denim jacket as suggested by the previous post are probably the best bet. A good full-face helmet with a removable, washable liner is tops - even a flip-front helmet if you can afford a decent one. I would never ride a bike without gloves and there are some good ones on the market that have lots of ventilation.

For extra protection on bigger bikes, an Aussie company markets jeanswear with kevlar reinforcements www.draginjeans.com while Belstaff make a jacket called Air Extreme which is made of a heavy mesh with armour in the shoulders, elbows and back. Otherwise, European bike gear is just too sweaty in the tropics. I know a couple who biked across Africa and they swear by washable helmet liners and cotton denim jeans as the greatest inventions since the wheel.

Worst thing about biking in Indonesia for me is the 200cc engine limit. I am 6ft 2ins and quite heavy and I'm used to having 900cc's propelling my great bulk around.

As the previous poster implied - those stoopid Tupperware crash hats that you can buy all over SE Asia are only useful for keeping the rain off. Riding a bike in flip-flops, Thai style, is only for those not fond of their feet.

[Kitegirl]

A lovely book to read before you go is Dervla Murphy's "One Foot in Laos". She has a traffic accident in the first days of her trip but continues her trip anyway (thus the title). Entertaining and informative in the best way.
Biking gear, hmmm. Absolutely gloves - it's no fun picking gravel out of fingers (assuming you get to keep them). When touring Israel by bike I wore shorts, t-shirt, helmet and gloves. I don't think I'd be that rash again.
I have the Draggin' Jeans - they are great, but didn't stop me from doing some permanent damage to my kneecap when I got side-swiped by a typical crap New Zealand driver (where I come from). No matter how good you may be (I don't think I am) you're always at the mercy of the other idiots. Draggin Jeans also does jackets, though I think I'd rather sweat that wee bit more and have padding.
Why am I blabbing away like this - even in the temperate climes of New Zealand where it never really goes above 25, I still sweat like hell in Kevlar jeans. I imagine it's infinitely worse in Laos, so whether you sweat like a horse, or like a pig, you may as well go for padded equipment.
Sorry for the lecture - but I've had a couple of rough days as the humidity makes my knee injury play up, and I don't wish that upon anyone.

[Aramas]

Having ridden bikes for more decades than I care to admit, including a year as a courier for a photo lab in Melbourne, I've concluded that bikes and cities are not a good combination. While Vientenne is reputedly a village with delusions of grandeur, the chaotic nature of the traffic is said to make up for it.

Gloves absolutely - I've had the skin ground off the back of my hand from the second knuckle to the wrist, and the resulting infection caused my fingers to swell like sausages. Not a good look. Admittedly I managed to open up the side of a caravan (trailer) like a can of beans with my handlebars, so it was worth it overall for the laugh. Fortunately the bone in my elbow absorbed most of the abrasion in that area, so I lost more bone than skin.

Jeans at least - It's amazing how even a thin layer of tough fabric can keep your skin on. When I T-boned a car on the highway at 120 kph my left leg and pelvis were reduced to wobbly bags of splinters, but the only marks on my 501's was a small hole on either side of the butt where my pelvis had pounded the fuel tank - the denim even managed to leave a weave print in the ten year-old paint with some fibres - tough stuff! A bloodless near-death experience! I won't mention how my scrotum filled with congealed blood so that it looked and felt like it was full of blackberry jam..oops! I already did! I was riding dirt bikes when synthetics replaced leather, and the first thing I noticed was that synthetics are like wearing plastic bags - you sweat like a poke full o' pigs. I don't like them at all. And a special note - no baggy pants! Spending 2 weeks lying on your belly with a fan pointed at your bum is even less fun than scrubbing the gravel out of your cheeks. Make sure you can't pull them down, particularly if you're one of those poor creatures that has no bum. Hipster jeans might be hip but they're not smart. If your trousers go down then your jocks will go with them, and you better pray that you're sliding on your back or it won't be the helmet on your head that you're worried about.

Full-face helmet definitely - I like my full face! I've ground the fronts of a few helmets during that seemingly eternal slide before the sudden stop, and I can't imagine how I would chew without a jaw. If you've ever been hit in the throat by a stone or a bee while riding then you'll apreciate what it would have done to your face if you were one of those weekend Harley riders with the black open-face and wrap-arounds. There's a word for them but the gods will get angry if I use it. Let's just say that their monkeys are well disciplined.

Good solid boots for sure - At a pinch trekking boots will do, but the closer they get to the knee the safer you feel and the less water they contain when you arrive at your destination. If you ride a Harley then learn to always drop it on the left side (I never did) otherwise your foot gets stuck under the air cleaner and wherever that bike is going, you're going with it. I sprained my ankles more often than every other motorcycle injury put together several times over. Ski boots might be good, but they're a little awkward to walk in. Don't bother with those prissy lighweight things that racers wear - they have an orthapedic surgeon waiting in their trailer to put them back together after the race. It's best to avoid the need to carry extra tools to maintain your legs, but if you're keen on exploring the border areas then afterward mechanical limbs might be your only option, in which case boots are no longer an issue and flip-flops will do just fine.

I've always worn a leather brando jacket rain, hail or shine - there is no substitute. Gore-tex has a nice non-stick effect during the slide, just like a teflon frypan, but they're still plastic bags. Besides, that descending pitch zipping sound that leather imparts as you slow down while sliding along the road on your back is quite comforting. If you wear wrist length gloves and leave the front open then you get a good ventilation thing happening up your arms as long as you're moving.

Oh, and lastly - don't let your mother read this

[YakTamer]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. It's far from certain that I'll do some biking, especially now that I'm realising what a killer it is for round the world trip insurance. I wasn't planning to bike it in the densely populated areas, but for rides out of town.
Good advice, anyway. Oh, btw Kitegirl, I'd just got the Dervla Murphy book out of the library so I was pleased to see your comments.

Looking forward to the Beer Lao already.

[fat_chris]

Aramas,

You lucky b@st@rd!

[Sheep-Goats]

[senor boogie woogie]

Hola!

I have been to Laos twice in the past year, going from Vientiane to Vang Vieng to Laung Prabang and back to Vientiane.

Laos is very rustic and extremely poor. Very beautiful. Very Buddhist. If you are into nightlife, bars, women and excitement, don't go there. If you are seeking the outdoors, scenic sights, temples, ganja, and nice mellow people, then go. Vientiane is actually boring if there for more than one day. As mentioned above, there are no good bars of note, mainly because by law they have to close at 1100 PM. I went to a good bar in Laung Prabang (LP) with some people I met and we were kicked out of there at 1230, I was mad because they were showing an NFL playoff game in the bar by satellite. Oh well.

Laos is a very mountainous country. I took the bus up to LP and it took about 9 hours to get there. On the way, the bus will stop and pick up a soldier to guard us, a soldier who is wearing a ratty green outfit with an AK-47. We would pass theough mountain villages in the highlands and I try to figure out how in the hell do people survive there. There is nowhere to grow food, there is no work of any kind, there are no cities anywhere around, no factories, nothing. A Lao told me that people hunt for wild pig, rat, rabbits and anything else they can snare. many of these people live in a grass and thatch hut, the size of an American closet.

LP was beautiful, it is on the Mekong River, there are some good restaurants there, including an Indian restaurant, and an actual good bar (see above). I rented a motorbike and drove around. For Laos, LP was fairly prosperous, I guess due to tourism and being on a major river. In LP, go out and see the waterfall, it is beautiful, in a wooded jungle area.

The food is wonderful and should not be missed. I also sing the praises of Lao Beer, I plan on going to Vietnam and Cambodia around Xmas time, and while I am there, I am going to request it. I also had LaoLao rice whiskey.

I hope to swing through Lao again soon. I have posted other Lao stories on Dave's, just type Laos on the search engine and I will reveal other stories.

Senor