Job Discussion Forums

spanglish · Joined: 21 May 2009 Posts: 742 Location: working on that

This is an interesting op-ed piece. The author makes many remarks I've seen many a time right here on Dave's.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/opinion/china-as-a-destination-for-job-seekers.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

johnslat · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:30 am Post subject:

Dear spanglish,

Your link takes one to a log-on page. Let's see if this one is any better.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/opinion/china-as-a-destination-for-job-seekers.html?scp=1&sq=china%20as%20a%20destination%20for%20job%20seekers&st=cse

Regards,
John

P.S, Well, it works for me.

LongShiKong · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 1082 Location: China

Spanglish: I'm not sure I get the connection between the article and your thread title.

ESL went mainstream almost a decade ago thanks to inclusive education practices and cuts in N.A. public education. I remember competing with freshly laid-off ESL teachers for private school jobs that spring back home. It's partly why I've remained in EFL.

spanglish · Joined: 21 May 2009 Posts: 742 Location: working on that

I guess there's a lot of content in the article that we talk about everyday on Dave's, but that folks who don't do ESL or live abroad probably haven't heard of. Stuff like the reason for going abroad in the first place, the life style one can have, what it's 'really like.' The author seemed to do a nice job of capturing the why and the what in a nutshell and hopefully dispelling a few myths.

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

Yea! Though I think they shoudl have covered more of the basics: like you'll probably only make $500 a month.

EFLeducator · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:38 pm Post subject:

spanglish · Joined: 21 May 2009 Posts: 742 Location: working on that

It's interesting to see the link the article makes between the bad economy in the US and going abroad to seek greener pastures.

LongShiKong · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 1082 Location: China

$500/mo? Nature girl, China's changed. My newby colleague and I take home 12,000 ($1,900 US) a month with an apt provided (many positions don't provide one anymore). But even then the salary is over 10,000 RMB/mo (even for newbies).

An ESL* teacher in N.A. currently makes $15 - 25/hr and few of these positions are full-time.

------------
Spanglish, just so you know:
ESL: English language teaching within English-speaking countries
EFL: English language teaching within in a non�English-speaking region.

I don't think this trend is new. I'd seen my own, my friends, and colleagues previous professions being offshored or taken over by tech going as far back as the '80s. The fallout of '08, just accelerated the trend.

morrisonhotel · Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Posts: 44

artemisia · Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 875 Location: the world

I don't suppose the rather trashy looking Belfast Telegraph would have the circulation of the NY Times, nevertheless this article is quite interesting. It's on a similar theme of having to seek work abroad.

Euro crisis: Ireland's lifeblood drains away as the leeches feast
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/euro-crisis-irelands-lifeblood-drains-away-as-the-leeches-feast-16087241.html

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

marmot · Joined: 22 Apr 2011 Posts: 14 Location: Shanghai

Well I can't speak for all of China, but in Shenzhen about 10-13k is the norm. I made 12,000 rmb right off the boat, with no experience. Those schools or Uni's paying 7,000rmb are either in the 2nd or 3rd tier cities or the work load is rather small and includes housing.

LongShiKong · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 1082 Location: China

I've been making between �7,200 and �8,000 (before tax) doing assistant managing/teaching for privates in small cities from 2004 until 2010 with my own housing provided free.

I'd been away for a yr until last summer when I accepted a (teaching only) position with Longman Schools, (DellEnglish.com) Beijing that paid �11,000/mo and req'd 2 yrs prior experience. Not having lived in Beijing since 2006, I thought that was rather high but I hadn't anticipated paying at least �3,500 rent--more than double what I'd paid in '06 and the agent's (ext:twisted: rtionist's) fee was still 1 mo's rent.

I don't recall whether they'd listed their salary in their ad or not. Shanghai Longman's current ad only mentions a �6,000 signing bonus but I believe the salary is the same (if not higher, at least the perks there are!!!) http://www.tefl.com/jobs/job.html?jo_id=47479

Like you, I thought �11,000 was high, but I actually had colleagues there convinced head office was rolling in the dough and paying us (FTs, not just CTs!) peanuts--this despite the fact I had very few students and classes. However, parents do fork out 10,000 in tuition with few questions--must be the name. Prior to my arrival, the 'high' salary led me to falsely suspect there would be lots of training and a host of professional standards and expectations to fulfill. In truth, there was virtually none.

The private school I'm at now also doesn't advertise their salary on their ads and as far as I know, it varies from location to location and based on experience with certification and a degree required. In my case, my salary is based on Shanghai positions (no provided apt.) but in this small city, the franchisee has chosen to provide it. And once again, I've got few students and few classes the manager here knows less than I do about running such a school and head office has left us with little more than their courseware.

New Oriental (Xindongfang) in Beijing is another school that I recall offering 10,000/mo and an extra 500 more if you have HSK and/or TEFL/TESOL certification on TEFL.com last summer or was it on theBeijinger.com, I forget.

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

EFLeducator · Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: