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morrisonhotel
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Posts: 44
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 Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:10 pm Post subject: Teaching in Hanoi |
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| What's the best way of going about finding work in Hanoi? There doesn't appear to much in the way of postings on here. Are there any other sites? Is it best to just fly across to Vietnam? |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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http://newhanoian.xemzi.com/en/job/list?category=1
TET is coming up, not so many jobs until Feb I'd say. Opinions are divided but it doesn't hurt being in the country when looking for a job, it's a cheap place so you won't burn through too much cash looking. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks. |
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just noel
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Teaching in Hanoi |
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| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| What's the best way of going about finding work in Hanoi? There doesn't appear to much in the way of postings on here. Are there any other sites? Is it best to just fly across to Vietnam? |
Please be aware that only 3 month visas are being issued at the moment, and extensions are dubious at best.
Watch the visa situation, as it's once again, nasty. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Teaching in Hanoi |
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| just noel wrote: |
| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| What's the best way of going about finding work in Hanoi? There doesn't appear to much in the way of postings on here. Are there any other sites? Is it best to just fly across to Vietnam? |
Please be aware that only 3 month visas are being issued at the moment, and extensions are dubious at best.
Watch the visa situation, as it's once again, nasty. |
Can you work on that? I'm assuming not.... |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Teaching in Hanoi |
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| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| just noel wrote: |
| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| What's the best way of going about finding work in Hanoi? There doesn't appear to much in the way of postings on here. Are there any other sites? Is it best to just fly across to Vietnam? |
Please be aware that only 3 month visas are being issued at the moment, and extensions are dubious at best.
Watch the visa situation, as it's once again, nasty. |
Can you work on that? I'm assuming not.... |
If you search around on the threads below this one, you'll find a lengthy debate on the work visa. Basically, some large chains will offer a work permit and a year long visa. Most school won't provide this for you meaning doing it yourself which is supposed to be quite a headache, but the school will still let you work for them but it means you're on a 3 month tourist or perhaps business visa. You have to leave the country after 3 months and get another visa from abroad. Some get lucky in Cambodia with a 6 month visa. this is Vietnam, nothing is clear.
This isn't like the Korean branch, it's closely moderated and there isn't much banter. |
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sigmoid
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1276
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| TET is coming up, not so many jobs until Feb I'd say. |
The slowdown in Hanoi lasts longer than in HCMC.
The TEFL job market may not pick up there again until April. |
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inhanoi
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| The 'slowdown' in Hanoi isn't markedly longer than in Saigon. Feb and March would be good for job hunting. |
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Mushroom Druid
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| inhanoi wrote: |
| The 'slowdown' in Hanoi isn't markedly longer than in Saigon. Feb and March would be good for job hunting. |
With all due respect, I disagree.
I have experienced a few Tets in Saigon and Hanoi, and Hanoi stays slow quite a bit longer. Until mid to late May, for the most part. Many students are studying for exams, and delay their English studies at the private schools until they are finished.
The one exception is, kids.
The children's classes are started when enough kids are signed up and enrolled in a class.
Hanoi is a smaller market. |
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Beautiful Loser
Joined: 29 May 2011
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| Mushroom Druid wrote: |
| inhanoi wrote: |
| The 'slowdown' in Hanoi isn't markedly longer than in Saigon. Feb and March would be good for job hunting. |
With all due respect, I disagree.
I have experienced a few Tets in Saigon and Hanoi, and Hanoi stays slow quite a bit longer. Until mid to late May, for the most part. Many students are studying for exams, and delay their English studies at the private schools until they are finished.
The one exception is, kids.
The children's classes are started when enough kids are signed up and enrolled in a class.
Hanoi is a smaller market. |
Overall, I'd have to disagree with you also. Hanoi is a smaller market, but there are other opportunities in the surrounding area, too. Most teachers won't consider working in Hanoi for reasons that I'd heard before and a few that I discovered on my own. It can be a real grind, especially after living in Saigon. So, if schools in Hanoi are having trouble finding teachers, what do you think the teacher pool looks like in the nearby provinces?There are schools beyond the gates of the city that employ foreign teachers, if they can find one that's willing to do some things they're not accustomed to, like driving long distances. The vast majority won't, which creates an opportunity for someone who will. I was commuting about 300 kilometers a week, if not more. Now we're focusing on one school in a city south of Hanoi. That means I don't have to live in Hanoi, but I get to live in a small town. Boring? Maybe, but the quality of life is better for me.
I think that a willingness to children is a must. I currently teach students who range in age from 3 to 55. If I had to choose, I'd take the kids, hands down. It's a personal preference, but if you're working at a good school, with a solid student base that's composed mainly of children, you're probably not going to worry a lot about slowdowns. Flexibility and versatility add to the value a school places on me. If I like the place I want to be looked at as an indispensable member of their staff.
I've tried to help teachers find jobs before and would have to laugh, because they have told me that they really need a job, but then start tossing out objections and stipulations while reviewing the ads. I won't teach kids.", "I won't work weekends, etc.". Sometimes they end up with plenty of time to relax, because they can't find a job! It's not their faullt though, because...
A site like the Hanoian is one of the only things that Saigon is lacking. There's so much information there that is exactly what a person needs in a new town. The also allow you to review schools, sort of like the old ESL Saigon site, with a welcome touch of civility. I noticed that the ad count dropped from 130+ to 88 in the last few days, but will probably go back up again after Tet. Only time will tell, I suppose. I'm glad that I don't have to worry about it. |
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Andy123
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Very straight forward and accurate post Beautiful Loser! Very good and truthful information.
I too have attempted to help many teachers over the years and ran into the special "criteria" of things they will not do. OMG.
I have had several jobs where I drove 2 hours round trip for three contact hours. It was work. I passed the travel time by keeping count of the number of accidents or bodies per week. I have worked for managers and Viet staff members that were unbashfully racist and abusive but it was a job until I could find another.
Vietnam is unlike many other Asian countries where you work for one school for years. Workers are often deemed as replaceable excrement and you should be grateful for the job. Don�t misunderstand me, they treat the indigenous people worse.
Starting off as a "newbie" is not what it used to be. You could get off the boat or quit a job and have a job in a day or two.
It will take a lot of time and effort until you learn the ropes. My advice is to network and network then sort through the BS to find the best fit for yourself. Trust me you are going be cheated and used. Learn from it, keep your eyes open and learn the mindset of what Xao (lie) really means. My biggest beef are the school managers that interview when no positions are available or call you months later and ask you if you can start tomorrow? |
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Beautiful Loser
Joined: 29 May 2011
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| Andy123 wrote: |
Very straight forward and accurate post Beautiful Loser! Very good and truthful information.
I too have attempted to help many teachers over the years and ran into the special "criteria" of things they will not do. OMG.
I have had several jobs where I drove 2 hours round trip for three contact hours. It was work. I passed the travel time by keeping count of the number of accidents or bodies per week. I have worked for managers and Viet staff members that were unbashfully racist and abusive but it was a job until I could find another.
Vietnam is unlike many other Asian countries where you work for one school for years. Workers are often deemed as replaceable excrement and you should be grateful for the job. Don�t misunderstand me, they treat the indigenous people worse.
Starting off as a "newbie" is not what it used to be. You could get off the boat or quit a job and have a job in a day or two.
It will take a lot of time and effort until you learn the ropes. My advice is to network and network then sort through the BS to find the best fit for yourself. Trust me you are going be cheated and used. Learn from it, keep your eyes open and learn the mindset of what Xao (lie) really means. My biggest beef are the school managers that interview when no positions are available or call you months later and ask you if you can start tomorrow? |
Thanks Andy. I was talking with an African-American woman once, who was a teacher in Hanoi and when I told her about the ads I'd seen she started objecting. I figured that was a good time to tell her about the overt racism she may encounter. I would call it an unwritten rule, but I've seen ads specifying "Whites only"! I'm qualified for such a position, but would be judged on merit. She ended up at Apollo, so kudos to them, because she was a plus size too, but she was a great teacher.
Sorting through the BS is a great point. The ads are a perfect example. There may be 100 jobs advertised. I'd estimate that 20 may be solid and dependable. That number may vary!
The manager going through old apps reminds me of when I sold accidental death and dismemberment insurance policies. We were given old leads to call one day. I reached a man at one of the numbers and asked for Jane, since that was the name of the lead. Turns out it was the name of his wife that had died a few years earlier. I felt horrible and apologized. I wasn't at that job very long. |
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Oh My God
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy123 wrote: |
| It will take a lot of time and effort until you learn the ropes. My advice is to network and network then sort through the BS to find the best fit for yourself. Trust me you are going be cheated and used. Learn from it, keep your eyes open and learn the mindset of what Xao (lie) really means. My biggest beef are the school managers that interview when no positions are available or call you months later and ask you if you can start tomorrow? |
For all those that need a reality check (yeah, that's you) this is firm and reliable advice. I've written this same advice myself, only used different sentences and words!  |
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Beautiful Loser
Joined: 29 May 2011
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Beautiful Loser wrote: |
| Andy123 wrote: |
Very straight forward and accurate post Beautiful Loser! Very good and truthful information.
I too have attempted to help many teachers over the years and ran into the special "criteria" of things they will not do. OMG.
I have had several jobs where I drove 2 hours round trip for three contact hours. It was work. I passed the travel time by keeping count of the number of accidents or bodies per week. I have worked for managers and Viet staff members that were unbashfully racist and abusive but it was a job until I could find another.
Vietnam is unlike many other Asian countries where you work for one school for years. Workers are often deemed as replaceable excrement and you should be grateful for the job. Don�t misunderstand me, they treat the indigenous people worse.
Starting off as a "newbie" is not what it used to be. You could get off the boat or quit a job and have a job in a day or two.
It will take a lot of time and effort until you learn the ropes. My advice is to network and network then sort through the BS to find the best fit for yourself. Trust me you are going be cheated and used. Learn from it, keep your eyes open and learn the mindset of what Xao (lie) really means. My biggest beef are the school managers that interview when no positions are available or call you months later and ask you if you can start tomorrow? |
Thanks Andy. I was talking with an African-American woman once, who was a teacher in Hanoi and when I told her about the ads I'd seen she started objecting. I figured that was a good time to tell her about the overt racism she may encounter. I would call it an unwritten rule, but I've seen ads specifying "Whites only"! I'm qualified for such a position, but I would be rather be judged by my merits. She ended up at Apollo, so kudos to them, because she was a plus size as well, but also a great teacher. Apollo does pay "chump change", especially considering that they want CELTA graduates! I've seen them advertise Hai Phong at 1000-1200. They would have to double it, plus some, for yours truly. I would want even more to work in Hanoi. You'd think that a school that is representing the CELTA would be a little cleaner and more organized. The place is a train wreck!
Sorting through the BS is a great point. The ads are a perfect example. There may be 100 jobs advertised. I'd estimate that 20 may be solid and dependable. That number may vary!
The manager going through old apps reminds me of when I sold accidental death and dismemberment insurance policies. We were given old leads to call one day. I reached a man at one of the numbers and asked for Jane, since that was the name of the lead. Turns out it was the name of his wife that had died a few years earlier. I felt horrible and apologized. I wasn't at that job very long. |
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Oh My God
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh My God wrote: |
| Andy123 wrote: |
| It will take a lot of time and effort until you learn the ropes. My advice is to network and network then sort through the BS to find the best fit for yourself. Trust me you are going be cheated and used. Learn from it, keep your eyes open and learn the mindset of what Xao (lie) really means. My biggest beef are the school managers that interview when no positions are available or call you months later and ask you if you can start tomorrow? |
For all those that need a reality check (yeah, that's you) this is firm and reliable advice. I've written this same advice myself, only used different sentences and words! |
Not including BL, is that a little clearer?  |
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