|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
|
 Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:09 am Post subject: Going from Z to X1 (updated) |
 |
|
Some new questions (and a new ulcer) about visa changes and work:
I'm on a Z visa (although I guess I should say I came in on that visa and have a Residency Permit based upon it). I wish to attend college and change to an X1, and get a new Residency Permit based on that.
I have heard to contact the school I'm interested in; and I'm waiting on that now.
WORKING PART-TIME AS A STUDENT
Part-time work is permitted under the X1 visa but only under the approval of the academic institution the student is attending and application for a residence permit with an annotation of the job's particulars...
(http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2013/07/25/china-releases-final-draft-of-new-visa-and-residence-permit-regulations-for-foreigners.html)
Well, this wouldn't be bad at all if it weren't for the clause about applying for a residence permit that is annotated with the job's particulars. Does that then mean that once you're issued a residency permit you cannot get a different or new job without reapplying for a whole new residency permit, in spite of having approval by the academic institution? Who pray tell can fix up a nice part-time teaching job at the same time he's applying for studies at a university without having set foot in Kunming, or only there for a couple of weeks? It would take a pretty slick individual to pull that off!
CHANGING RESIDENCY
I have never heard that it would be OK to change my Residency Status (since it seems that it's the Residency Permit, not the visa itself that matters) unless I leave the country, Hong Kong (yes, technically China) sounding like the best bet for me. Then I would have to apply for an L visa, reenter China, go to my school in Kunming, and have the L visa changed into an X1, whereupon I would be issued my Residency Permit?
That seems to be the case, but it's quite odd. In fact, that does not sound right at all. Isn't the Residency Permit based upon the visa you enter with? Why can't I just apply for an X1 visa in Hong Kong? After all, I first entered China on a Z visa issued by a Chinese Consulate in another country- why would the X be different?
Another question- I'm living in Guangzhou now. My Residency Permit expires March 15 (actually I'm waiting on a six month extension and will probably get it as we've signed the contract and applied for the Z certificate, but hey, better prepared than sorry).
So until that day (March 15) am I free to go in and out China until I get new Residency Permit or until this one expires? Couldn't I just go to Hong Kong, apply for the X visa, go back home to GZ, then pick it up in HK later? I heard that the Residency Permit is 'set in brick' and only expires upon either condition described above. Then I wouldn't have to wait in Hong Kong spending tons of HK dollars or go back into the PRC with butterflies in my stomach because all I would have is a tourist visa. Even if I get my contract renewed, I'll still have to go through this in September. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| In Beijing I was told you could not go from a Z (RP) to an X..so the process was to go like this .. go to HK and hope they change it to an L and then go back and get the paperwork and medical submit to the PSB and pray...seems there is an automatic conclusion that you will try and contue to work as you did with the valid work book...this is the reason I went down to 10 hours and why it was important for the employer school to not inform the Labor board that my hours were less than full time.... so I could attend classes...but I still had to maintain a working situation for visa purposes. I didnt want to give up my RP/work book for a promise of a X... so I just worked a deal for continued employment with hours that would manage study time as well...by the way, the current job opportunities may no be avaiable via the X visa as many jobs are not approved for this type of visa.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| NoBillyNO wrote: |
| In Beijing I was told you could not go from a Z (RP) to an X..so the process was to go like this .. go to HK and hope they change it to an L and then go back and get the paperwork and medical submit to the PSB and pray...seems there is an automatic conclusion that you will try and contue to work as you did with the valid work book...this is the reason I went down to 10 hours and why it was important for the employer school to not inform the Labor board that my hours were less than full time.... so I could attend classes...but I still had to maintain a working situation for visa purposes. I didnt want to give up my RP/work book for a promise of a X... so I just worked a deal for continued employment with hours that would manage study time as well...by the way, the current job opportunities may no be avaiable via the X visa as many jobs are not approved for this type of visa.... |
Thanks for the response. But it sounds to me like you went from the wok into the fire! Having to coax your school 'not' to inform the labor board you were under full time (my contract only calls for 12 40-minute classes a week) is just as iffy as working part-time 'under cover' isn't it? To me a contract is a contract; if I stray outside of it then I'm vulnerable to the actions of my employer (who I like but know I cannot rely on 100% anyway).
It sounds like you studied while under a Z visa, which I too have considered. Perfectly legal and I don't see why that should cause too many problems if you have good communications with both your school and employer. But I want my primary focus to be on my University and my MA, not on language teaching. Not now, anyway.
If I'm correct regarding the strategy you took, then what do you mean by 'hope' that you get an L visa since it sounds like you didn't actually attempt it? If you have committed no offense and have filled out the forms properly, why would you be 'fortunate' to get an L visa? I realize it's ultimately up to the issuing officer, but come on- do you know of people denied an L visa? However, I am still wondering why you cannot apply for the X visa in Hong Kong (or I suppose country of residence)? You have to make a visa run to turn an L into a Z but not to turn an L into X? Strange.
'submit to PSB and pray'... Jee Whiz, sorry, maybe you're joking but it's not funny to me. I don't live my life like that, praying to bureaucracy. If China REALLY does not want me to get an MA here, I guess I'd bail, even though Chinese is the second most important language in the world. If I couldn't continue my schooling here I think I'd be at a dead end.
As far as these suspicions of the PSB of you just wanting to work, why on earth would you have changed visas to study when you could have just kept on as an English teacher? It's not as though they're aren't tons of jobs out there. But again as I suppose you never really went through the process you are just speculating negatively or like being the bearer of bad news. 
Finally, you say that many jobs are not approved for part time work while on an X visa. Could you or anyone elaborate on this? For example, let's say a company wanted me to coach ILETS for 10 hours a week. Would that not be approved? How about work related to your masters degree? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Thanks for the response. But it sounds to me like you went from the wok into the fire! Having to coax your school 'not' to inform the labor board you were under full time (my contract only calls for 12 40-minute classes a week) is just as iffy as working part-time 'under cover' isn't it? |
Never said I had to coax them .... they know what they are doing ...
| Quote: |
| is just as iffy as working part-time 'under cover' isn't it? |
Not at all.....
| Quote: |
| To me a contract is a contract; if I stray outside of it then I'm vulnerable to the actions of my employer (who I like but know I cannot rely on 100% anyway). |
whats this have to do with you wanting to go to school.
| Quote: |
It sounds like you studied while under a Z visa, which I too have considered. |
I do now, 8-12 5 days a week...
| Quote: |
| If I'm correct regarding the strategy you took, then what do you mean by 'hope' that you get an L visa since it sounds like you didn't actually attempt it? If you have committed no offense and have filled out the forms properly, why would you be 'fortunate' to get an L visa? I realize it's ultimately up to the issuing officer, but come on- do you know of people denied an L visa? |
Quite a few....age comes into factor as well as past work history .... a lot of reasons why this will or wont work... no crystal ball here so you make the best choice on the information you receive and what you experience.
| Quote: |
| However, I am still wondering why you cannot apply for the X visa in Hong Kong (or I suppose country of residence)? You have to make a visa run to turn an L into a Z but not to turn an L into X? Strange. |
I am not sure the x is issued outside of China as all of my "classmates" went the same route.
| Quote: |
| I don't live my life like that, praying to bureaucracy. |
Are you for real, it is an expression....perhaps HOPE would be a word that will suit ya....
| Quote: |
As far as these suspicions of the PSB of you just wanting to work, why on earth would you have changed visas to study when you could have just kept on as an English teacher? |
That is the general idea of the PSB and not specific to my case. Perhaps some folk change careers .. who knows...
| Quote: |
| It's not as though they're aren't tons of jobs out there. But again as I suppose you never really went through the process you are just speculating negatively or like being the bearer of bad news. |
No I spoke to the PSB several times and was fairly sure I could accomplish it but they did caution that not all jobs were open to students workers so there may go your "Tons of Jobs"...I actually did go through the process but near the end of the preparation my uni offered to cut my hours to 10 which I thought was manageable... they are fully aware of my studies....this was not negative specualtion but the report of what I did .. I really couldn't care what you do with the information provided.. but I have a feeling that you will do a good job of tripping up yourself.
| Quote: |
For example, let's say a company wanted me to coach ILETS for 10 hours a week. Would that not be approved? How about work related to your masters degree? |
Since you doubt my sincerity why ask additional questions that you could find out yourself by simply asking the correct administrative authority.
Good luck with your chosen academic direction.....I have enjoyed the past year and will continue next year.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
NoBilly,
I do not doubt your sincerity and I value your information- I really do. Just trying to separate the chaff from the wheat. You know, if someone tells you IF you get an L and then 'hope' the PSB allows the X through, well it sounds pretty grim to someone trying it for the first time doesn't it? So naturally I wanted to ask you a bunch of questions and I suppose I came off as rude. Sorry, I didn't mean to.
So you did study on an X visa for a year and then switched back to a Z? Could you work on the X? Just asking if you don't mind sharing.
I'm planning to attend Yunnan University of Nationalities from September to get an MA in comparative linguistics. I've been planning this for a long time, have studied REALLY hard for the HSK and I'm really looking forward to it. As its a well-known and well-estblished institution, I hope I don't have any trouble. My school here agreed to extend my contract for one more term (I've been here two years), and I've already signed that, as has the lawyer et al. Now we're just waiting for the Z certificate (or whatever is needed) so we can formalize it. I guess that's why 'pray' gave me goosebumps- I get really nervous at these times as there is no guarantee against rejection. I have seen other applicants get turned down (not having two years teaching experience) but the one guy came here anyway on an L and got a job at a uni more prestigious than ours! In any case, I do have a plan B for such an event. That would be enrolling in YUN earlier than I planned- if I can (that's what I'm trying to find out). Plan C would be whatever I can get teaching in Kunming I guess, and keep trying for YUN in Sept. Don't have a plan D for Doom. Not yet anyway. lol
Best of luck on your studies too! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
I stayed on the Z (Work Book) and didn't not convert yet....I am beyond most students age... although there were many in my class that were in there mid life crisis years...
| Quote: |
| I get really nervous at these times as there is no guarantee against rejection. |
This is why I use the cautionary language and try to relate to my own experience and not speak "matter of fact" ....i have just completed my first half year of study (formally) with a University. I will try and continue but perhaps age of the student is not a factor in your situation and the local PSB may consider you as a normal application for study .. I am not sure what jobs are open for students.. at my university they have informed me that they don't think the x will fly in Beijing .... and that I should stay on the Z (work book) and not convert to an X.
As far as tying to find Rhyme or Reason to what visa and what job (as you gave the example of the guy on the L getting a job) I am not sure it is possible.. I have found in this case it is pays your money and takes your chance....
One last note .. I spoke about this yesterday to my Chinese language school.(not my work location) and they have told me that since I went this term and had perfect attendance that the PSB will for sure approve an X if I decide to go that way this year....I would really like to as my girl has a great job and I can kind of sit back for a while ..... but again .. I have a lot ot lose here ... a shop and a house and fully finished lifestyle so perhaps I am more cautious in my approach than you need to be ...
Sorry if my retort was a bit sharp ... I was going over mid terms with the students yesterday and dealing with rather poor results .... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| NoBillyNO wrote: |
| I stayed on the Z (Work Book) and didn't not convert yet....I am beyond most students age... although there were many in my class that were in there mid life crisis years... |
I myself am pushing 50 so I'm in the same situation. I'm not sure what that means to immigration, but my college admins (present employers) have always been supportive of my intentions.
Well, you're right- sometimes life is a wing and a prayer ordeal and 'taint nothing you can do about it. In all likelihood my visa will come through on schedule and I'll be thinking about these same choices six months from now, with more resources though. As far as the latter goes, I could be better off, but I could be worse off. One thing's for sure, I've come a long way here and the last thing I want to do is give up now.
I have wrestled with this 'part time work on a student visa or study on a working visa' dilemma many times. Perhaps you have too. All things being equal, the former is far preferable, at least until for the first year or two. But there just aren't enough people out there doing that to compare with. So I'll still have to consider it. Here in GZ my school has always taken care of me. I don't have much experience dealing with immigration on my own. Of course, my FAO sometimes is just as baffled as anyone else by the decisions of the PSB.
Well I've taken up enough forum space. I'll relate my ZX visa experiences as they come. Heartening news is welcome. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I myself am pushing 50 |
At this point I'm pushing back....my desire is to study full time with no work.... the problem is.. it is hard to let go of a job.. income... coin to spend without dipping into the mattress....I hhave been working to firm up another alternative revenue stream so as to allow me to freely pursue learning to read/write with some ability ... and also I have a pretty good life in the Big Slanty....so I just want to seek a way to improve it and language and literacy is the road I have chosen...I admire anyone who tries to learn new life skills to adapt to China as I feel it has the most to offer. Yeah the authorities are screwy but at least they are not focus on putting everyone in a profit making judicial/penal system and for the most part you can work with them... so I have all the hope that it will work out for both of us....I use words like hope just as a caution ... I do think you will be successful as it is clear you have "gumption" ...... I will let you know of any changes |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In a nutshell you have expressed the concerns that made me rehash this topic (particularly in light of the new X1 and X2 split). I just want to study and accomplish my degree and continue with research. Nothing fancy, I know at my age I'm not due to be rolling in the dough or basking in the academic limelight, but I would at least like to accomplish something. And I know from my own experience this term that it's been hard, though by no means impossible, to study full time under a Z visa. I've had no social life, but for now that's OK. I suppose that's typical for a scholar. I did not end up resenting my work (I love my students; they're so encouraging) and I got a lot done.
But that's just it- the visa. I've signed a one term contract (moving next Aug.) but still waiting on the bureau. I've been here two years now and really have no idea what I'll do if the visa falls through. The idea of having to leave China now is disconcerting to say the least. I have come to love China just as I expected I would (20 years in Japan btw), I'm committed to studying and teaching here, and my daughter really wants to join me after she graduates HS. I suppose before coming here for the first time that I thought I'd kind of settle in and visas would be automatic but lol, it ain't like that is it? I guess I'm getting a bit too old for jumping hoops without feeling pain.
As for the X1, working 10 h. a week at 150 or working more hours at less in a study related job would get me along just fine (w/out going into savings as you say). But from what I've heard the X1 with an 'annotated' RP is so new that probably the school or the PSB are not even aware of it yet. So I guess the argument remains in favor of studying under a Z visa if want to study and work legally (unless you really work out the X1 ahead of time). I'll keep my antennae extended. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In a nutshell you have expressed the concerns that made me rehash this topic (particularly in light of the new X1 and X2 split). I just want to study and accomplish my degree and continue with research. Nothing fancy, I know at my age I'm not due to be rolling in the dough or basking in the academic limelight, but I would at least like to accomplish something. And I know from my own experience this term that it's been hard, though by no means impossible, to study full time under a Z visa. I've had no social life, but for now that's OK. I suppose that's typical for a scholar. I did not end up resenting my work (I love my students; they're so encouraging) and I got a lot done.
But that's just it- the visa. I've signed a one term contract (moving next Aug.) but still waiting on the bureau. I've been here two years now and really have no idea what I'll do if the visa falls through. The idea of having to leave China now is disconcerting to say the least. I have come to love China just as I expected I would (20 years in Japan btw), I'm committed to studying and teaching here, and my daughter really wants to join me after she graduates HS. I suppose before coming here for the first time that I thought I'd kind of settle in and visas would be automatic but lol, it ain't like that is it? I guess I'm getting a bit too old for jumping hoops without feeling pain.
As for the X1, working 10 h. a week at 150 or working more hours at less in a study related job would get me along just fine (w/out going into savings as you say). But from what I've heard the X1 with an 'annotated' RP is so new that probably the school or the PSB are not even aware of it yet. So I guess the argument remains in favor of studying under a Z visa if want to study and work legally (unless you really work out the X1 ahead of time). I'll keep my antennae extended. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| But that's just it- the visa. I've signed a one term contract (moving next Aug.) but still waiting on the bureau. I've been here two years now and really have no idea what I'll do if the visa falls through. |
Working the last 9 years for the same Uni and living in Beijing leaves me with much the same trepidation...and it is getting harder not easier. I don't wanna leave China and like you love to study the language.....but......studing with a Z(work book) and a job s time consumiing and with the commute in Beijing taking as long as the class, leave little time when one is really ready to absorb.....I'm still looking at alternative revenue streams that do not require a work book....one is I started selling old Chinese photos (bought in the markets) to galleries overseas...not a big earner but it adds up.... also found a place in a local market to sell bamboo chairs and nick/knacks .... so far so good.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| NoBillyNO wrote: |
Working the last 9 years for the same Uni and living in Beijing leaves me with much the same trepidation...and it is getting harder not easier. |
Lol, I think this is about the most personable exchange I've ever had on Dave's!
One very important thing for both of us to remember is that we're highly skilled teachers with a lot of experience. I used to be an English school owner in Japan (a mill more or less), and I would pick an experienced person over an inexperienced young person any day. It's not that inexperienced people don't make great teachers- they can and do- it's just that just as often they were terrible teachers, or unreliable. I don't think the situation is any different here, and I know for a fact that there is far less agism in China than in Japan. I don't think we need to get jittery over running out of time on that point. Sometimes people mention retirees not having luck with jobs. Well, those retirees I'd assume don't have any experience in EFL and are looking for an adventure. I don't how old you are, but at 50 I'm hardly ready to retire! I think I'd like to retire on my deathbed to tell the truth.
If you or I really want to study no one can hold us back. I'm already fluent in Japanese, and although I don't speak Mandarin so well yet I can read and almost have the HSK 4th Level cracked (need at least the 5th). And I haven't set foot in a Chinese class (which is probably why I don't speak well yet). I've familiarized myself with my field of study (linguistics), have visited the areas I'm most interested in, and I'm ready to start anytime!
But you have to have a visa, and that's the way it is. There is not a patch of dirt left on earth where you can live without some government's permission (literally at gunpoint) and in my country (the U.S) there is no a patch of dirt on the mainland or any of the territories where I can live without either paying rent or buying land. Basically, everyone is homeless! The trick for me now is to just find work that is related to my studies (and for me that doesn't mean translating user manuals, though it could mean mapping databases for translation software). That seems some years off, if it happens at all. Regardless, my standards and expectations regarding salary and housing are very low. And that, I observe, is the direction we're all heading in soon anyway.
It's easy and normal to feel beaten down and frustrated in our situation. This is our life and there is not so much time left. But we have to know in our hearts that our intentions are good, and our efforts will be recognized. You don't have to be a social butterfly making guangxi all over the place (pick friends wisely I'd say), more often you just have to convince one person. If I do have to leave China for a short time, I won't give up. I'll come back soon. Keep knocking at the gate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I don't how old you are, but at 50 I'm hardly ready to retire! |
I am at the same river crossing that you are and I like the constant sound of coin coming in so he!! no, I wont go ..into retirement.
| Quote: |
| I think I'd like to retire on my deathbed to tell the truth. |
I've made up my mind that I'm never gonna go....
My speaking is ok .. I was mainly going after some reading skills and writing as well....
Yes at this point I have 20 something years of experience and 10 years of experience working with a franchise program in a local well thought of university which always gives me an advantage as they really want me to stay for the next two years..it is the admin part of the equation tath I start to be concerned about but not really "filled with fear" as I know I have several ways to stay here.. but if I could keep my cushy job and maintain a garage, house and a girl with a few vehicles thrown in and a few vacations per year for good luck...I will be just fine....RESPECT cuz for your Knock Knock Knocken on China's door..... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
After a week of mulling, here's my observation and conclusion:
Although I'm throughly experienced and qualified, I do have to admit that because of my age I'm beginning to get scared. That's not surprising. I settled down once, with a family in Japan, got divorced, and really want to settle down again, with a wife or maybe just a community. So I'm not too fond of one year contracts and will have to think of what to do about that in the future.
I'm committed to an MA in China for sure, but I don't see an X1 as viable at this point. Down the road, make some contacts, get friendly with people who can help you out- perhaps then. But I don't think the X1 has lift-off yet, though it's all there looking good on paper.
If I do lose my FEC and RP and all the rest of it I'm going to Laos for the next term to work a bit, study the language (that's in my plans anyway) and apply for a Sept. position in Kunming. I'm not going to scramble for a last minute in and be stuck in another March to March contract. So I'll think of it as a sabbatical. Sad to lose everything and start all over again, but we lead lifestyles that requires courage.
Bottom line for me right now- Z visa with FEC. In the future I hope that changes into something more flexible and/or best of all in line with my studies. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
