Job Discussion Forums

geaaronson · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 948 Location: Mexico City

Here`s an interesting moral dilemna and i am curious as to how others would have handled it.
An ESL teacher is teaching corporate employees at multinational corporate headquarters here in Mexico City. The contract is between the recruiter and the corporation. The teacher`s salary is through the recruiter, not directly from the company.
The corporation decides to eventually cut all classes but does so over the course of 6 months. In that time, classes have been cut by more than 50% by the corporation, and within the next month the company will cut the number of students from its original of almost 100, 6 months ago, to less than 10.
A student in a class asks the teacher to continue to teach but on a private basis, since the company now refuses to pay for his English instruction.
What would you do, if you were that teacher?
I am sure both Guy and Samantha would have the most interesting input in this situation.

MO39 · Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject:

I don't see any problem with accepting a private student on this basis. If the company stops paying for classes, why shouldn't one of the students look for a teacher elsewhere? It's not as though you would be taking a paying student away from the recruiter, since the student wasn't paying for lessons in the first place - his company was.

CharlieBaloney · Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 52 Location: Ciudad de Mexico

I agree with MO39s advice and rationale, EXCEPT were there any details, written or oral, included as part of the teacher and recruiter's agreement that would pertain to something like this?

MO39 · Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject:

Good point, CB, about possible "contract" language that would pertain to this situation. Is it common for recruiters in Mexico to give teachers they work with a contract, written or oral?

leslie · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 235

dixie · Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 644 Location: D.F

What if the student will either choose you, their former teacher, quite all together or attending a different, cheaper school? Then what?

The school loses regardless, so does it hurt if you win?

leslie · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 235

GueroPaz · Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 216 Location: Thailand or Mexico

Agreeing with Leslie. I teach private lessons, and I teach IELTS/SAT test prep classes one-on-one at a language center. One of my students at the center pays 550 baht an hour, and he found out that I charge 320 in his neighborhood for the same thing. He is from the same cultural group as all my private students. He asked me, and now he knows I will not take him away from the center. Operating a language center or a teaching agency is very expensive.

I humbly suggest you ask your employer questions like this. Do what they say, or quit.

MO39 · Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject:

[quote="GueroPaz"]Agreeing with Leslie. I teach private lessons, and I teach IELTS/SAT test prep classes one-on-one at a language center. One of my students at the center pays 550 baht an hour, and he found out that I charge 320 in his neighborhood for the same thing...He asked me, and now he knows I will not take him away from the center.
/quote]

GP, I suggest that there's a big difference between taking a student away from a school (as in the situation you mention above) and taking on a student who is no longer taking classes through a recruiter (as in the OPs situation) you work for. I've had a recent similar situation come up. A student whom I've been working with since last October (and whom I found through a recruiter) has had to give up her private class with me because of her increasingly-busy work schedule. But she will continue to work with me on her writing on-line, on a casual basis. The recruiter doesn't offer this kind of service, so I don't have any qualms about this arrangement. Comments are welcome...

geaaronson · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 948 Location: Mexico City

MO39 is making the very ethical distinction in her last post which I would have made. No there was no contractual agreement between the recruiter and myself at all, so no there was no written agreement prohibiting my even deviously stealing a student currently under contract to my employer, which I certainly would not do under any circumstances.

That very situation did come up when I was teaching at a language school in Merida and a student in a private class on the very first day with me asked me if I would take her on as my own student. This she did despite the fact that she had prepaid for 8 classes at a very substantial rate. I outright refused and told the academic director of her attempt to lure me away. I am now not convinced it was so much of a money saving situation for her as she had paid all that money up front, but that she felt highly uncomfortable dealing with the director as did many people.

The student in question asked me at the last day of class if we could continue with me as the contractor. I do not know whether the recruiter had made an offer via internet to the axed students for private classes with direct contracts. I suspect not. She expected the students to call or email her when they learned of being deleted from the class rolls and several had done so, expressing their extreme displeasure toward the multinational�s move to the recruiter.

Both the recruiter and I did agree in thinking most of the teachers would go ahead and take their students on as privates and she expressed indignation that so many of her teachers would be �floating around�the corporate building teaching a student here and there and that it would make her look bad. I agreed with her totally on that point.

Gary Denness · Guest

There are quite a lot of different circumstances being brought up, which some peeps might suggest is missing the point of the OP. I think all these different circumstances point out that no two situations are even remotely alike, and the general issue is a complicated one.

Personally I would suggest communicating honestly and ethically with everyone involved and hoping that the best solution is arrived at by all. But what if someone digs their heels in on a vague principal? What if the student decides to advertise for a teacher - are you forbidden from applying? What if the recruiter/school is a devious type and has screwed other before? What if, what if, what if....

I found working for schools/recruiters to be usually far more difficult and complicated than it needed to be. I much prefer working for myself taking on private lessons. Working for someone else again would be a last resort.

wildchild · Joined: 14 Nov 2005 Posts: 519 Location: Puebla 2009 - 2010

There are no real morals in capitalism.

Everyone is trying to make a buck from everyone.

Kill or be killed.

Faking morality, forming a strategy, however; these are a different matter.

mapache · Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 202 Location: Villahermosa

I guess one should have remorse if he/she actually believed the recruiter or a school had any regard for the teacher and his/her situation.

When I walked out on a private school (without a contract), some of my students followed me for private classes. The owner howled I stole her students but that wasn't the case.

Es un mundo de los perros comen los otros perros" Razz

TheLongWayHome · Joined: 07 Jun 2006 Posts: 1016 Location: San Luis Piojosi

From what I've seen of company classes (in SLP), a school owner will have no qualms about stealing/head-hunting a teacher from another school operating within the same company. Stealing students however, is viewed as slightly unethical.

Foreign teachers are of course, far too ethical. A good teacher is a good teacher regardless of the school or system, especially if this is known within the same company. Teachers should take advantage of this and make some money, or go one further and cut out the middle-man altogether.

As for the OP's case - take on the student. If you don't someone else will.

geaaronson · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 948 Location: Mexico City

I certainly did take the student on as I felt that at the point at which there no longer was a contract, the student was then a free agent. I have no beef with the recruiter, she is a fair one and well liked by her teachers and does everything possible to maintain the best integrity in all her business dealings, however, given the fact that there no longer was a contract, and I believe she had not made any effort to contact the expired students and offer them a deal, I made my move and took up the student�s offer.
I consider myself a good teacher and have done well on the private student market. Of course some students find me less than adequate, others are overjoyed. Those that find me less than adequate are usually students who I don�t particularly like as students and no matter how much I try to hide that fact, I suppose I cannot.
The recruiter in question, is quite aware that her teachers are cherry picking the students who had previously been covered by the company contract and is extremely upset about the fact. I quite understand her chagrin, however, the capitalist system being what it is, there is no obligation on our parts to refrain from taking on our students as our own. The sucker that I am and enjoying working for this one recruiter, I do feel bad for her, but then again, had she made a reasonable offer to the students she would have gotten them, but she chose to wait for them to contact her.