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windsofchange
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 35
Location: NZ
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 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:12 am Post subject: Teaching in Thailand |
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Hi and good to be back
Any info/feedback would be great. I'm looking at options to teach in Asia and I know Thailand isn't the place to work if you want to make money, however, as I do really like the place I was hoping for a bit of advice.
What kind of teaching work could I get in Thailand:
Whitey NZ
MA (Text and Performance, Drama)
Dip Ed
5 years Secondary teaching experience as HOD Drama
Full NZ Teaching registration
5 Years ESOL teaching
CELTA
CERT of English (means I'm qualified to teach Secondary English)
I am essentially a Drama specialist and if possible Iwant to continue with that subject
Any feedback would be fab thank you  |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:28 am Post subject: |
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You should be able to get a job at a "second tier" international school. The average pay here for teachers is between 30,000 Baht and 40,000 Baht. With your qualifications you should get payed slightly higher than that. Why work in Thailand? You should look this over before getting a job here.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=88577 |
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Aristede
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| plumpy nut wrote: |
You should be able to get a job at a "second tier" international school. The average pay here for teachers is between 30,000 Baht and 40,000 Baht. With your qualifications you should get payed slightly higher than that. Why work in Thailand? You should look this over before getting a job here.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=88577 |
Sounds like the OP just likes Thailand and is willing to tolerate lower pay for the tradeoff. The link you posted is definitely worth looking at, but in truth, there are comparable warnings in threads on nearly every board. Some common themes:
Korea: Unbearable social environment, unscrupulous employers
Japan: Market oversaturated, cost of living murderous
China: poor pay, unscrupulous employers
Indonesia: Terrible infrastructure, disaster zone, shoddy pay
Vietnam: Falling wages, �cowboy� schools, �golden age� for ESL is past
Eastern Europe: terrible pay, tons of red tape
Russia: corrupt police, criminal element, bad employers, pay not so good
Turkey: High cost of living, good jobs scarce, shady employers
Middle East: Pay falling, harsh physical and social environment
South America: Subsistence wages at best
I've personally only taught in China so far, so that is my sole point of reference. Currently I'm considering Thailand (or possibly Turkey), and the reality of low pay is certainly a concern. However, compared with day-to-day life in China, Bangkok feels like an earthly paradise (albeit a hot one). I guess it is largely about which tradeoffs we ultimately choose to accept. |
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MaiPenRai
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 390
Location: BKK
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You should be able to get a job at a "second tier" international school. The average pay here for teachers is between 30,000 Baht and 40,000 Baht. With your qualifications you should get payed slightly higher than that. |
Sorry but these numbers are WAY OFF. All of the schools I would consider to be mid-tier Internatonal school or private schools are paying much more than that.
With the experience and credentials the OP has he/she should be looking to make 50,000 baht/month AT LEAST (maybe a school like SBS, Pan Asia, Trail, Chiang Rai Inter, etc.). With some connections or good timing, there is no reason the OP could not be pushing 70,000++/month (a school like Assumption, Triom Suksa, Prasanmit, Thai-Japanese, etc.).
Anyone with home country certification, an MA, 5+ years experience, CELTA, etc. is (should) not looking at "average" TEFL teacher salaries.
Might be hard to find a position that is strictly Drama, but I know 2 teachers doing Drama/English at mid tier schools making 65,000 and 80,000/month.
With an MA, the OP could work towards mid-management after a year or 2 which will increase the salary as well.
Home country certified teachers who are ambitious and professional can make a decent living in Thailand. |
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Eagle Eyes
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 121
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| Teacher pay in Thailand has not increased over the last 30 years or so and the average one can expect at an international school or private school is around Baht 40,000 per month. There are so many so called international schools in Thailand....however the pay is enough to live on and can afford one a decent lifestyle in the LOS. Savings maybe be very difficult but one can manage to save if one is frugal. |
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windsofchange
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 35
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:22 am Post subject: sounds bad |
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It all sounds awful. What do you need to teach at a 'First Tier' international school? a Phd?
I was offered a job at a BKK uni 10 years ago but I didn't take it......
When last in Thailand I met teachers who were teaching privately and doing really well (not in BKK). I guess it takes time to build up those contacts.
Thanks for the advice all the same.  |
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MaiPenRai
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 390
Location: BKK
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Teacher pay in Thailand has not increased over the last 30 years or so and the average one can expect at an international school or private school is around Baht 40,000 per month. |
ONCE AGAIN, this is simply not true. See examples in my previous post re schools that would be attainable for the OP with his C.V. in much higher salary ranges than 40,000/month. These were simply schools that I was able to think of off the top of my head. I have lived in Thailand for more than 8 years and worked at nearly ALL levels of the education system. My current school's starting salary has nearly doubled in the past 6 years or so. I know other schools/teachers in the same boat. With his C.V., he would start at over 70,000 baht/month at my current school (sorry not hiring at the moment). Assumption EP program would be 80,000+ baht/month. Christ, even the Assumption bell program would be close to 50,000 baht/month and they dont require hoe country certification.
It is true that the poorly run schools keep salaries stagnant or lower as they lose money due to inept management. These schools are often run by very wealthy Thai families who know nothing about education.
The OP is a certified teacher in NZ with 5+ years experience, an MA and a CELTA. He is already in the top 10-20 percent of teachers in Thailand. Salaries for your average TEFL'er may have stayed the same, but this guy ain't no average TEFL'er (based on his C.V.) His teacher certification, Dip. Ed and home country experience automatically put him in a higher salary bracket than most "teachers" in Thailand.
To the OP, to work at a top tier International School, you will usually need to attend job fairs and many of these schools want IB experience (if an IB school) or IGSCE experience (if a Brit school). Most of the top schools require you to be currently working. Most require at least 2 years experience in the grade/subject. It also helps to have a connection on the inside. The top tier schools will pay expat salaries with expat benefits. 100,000 baht++/month, flights, moving costs, accommodation allowance, insurance, pension, free/discounted schooling for kids, etc.) Positions at these top schools are among the most competitive for International schools worldwide. (who doesnt want to live in tropical Thailand and make a western salary...even if it is a western teacher's salary, lol)
If you are good at what you do, can learn to adapt to Thai culture and make the connections you need, you can do quite well in Thailand. Most "teachers" who come to Thailand dont fit this description. I speak from extensive personal experience and knowledge of many others experience. |
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windsofchange
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 35
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Thank you MaiPen Rai for taking the time to provide that information.
I've been visiting Thailand for years and I just love the place and I want to spend some real time within the culure and learning the language.
Having said that, there's no way I'd chuck in a Head of Department job at one of the top Boys school in this country to work at an iffy language school in BKK.
Where would I source out a trade fair? NZ, Oz?
Could I find good international schools on the internet?
Thanks again for your advice, it keeps me opimistic  |
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windsofchange
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 35
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Just another question, are ALL the International schools in BKK?
I love Issan and it would be great to be up there, not overly fussed on Chang Mai |
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Eagle Eyes
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 121
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Salaries in Thailand for the average TEFLer are between Baht 30,000-Baht 40,000 per month at typical language schools in Thailand. It is very unlikely that one will earn more than this. For international schools earning Baht 40,000 is on average...those who earn more than this are the likely few and competition is extremely keen for these jobs even with the right qualifications. I would say about 90% of ALL Teflers teaching in international schools don't earn more than Baht 50,000 per month and this is based on the TEFL market supply and demand here in Thailand....several of my colleagues here in Thailand working at so called international schools have told me that as they have been here for decades. |
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MaiPenRai
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 390
Location: BKK
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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There seems to be some confusion for some here, so I will try this once once and be very clear. I will also try to keep my information relevant to the Original Post.
| Quote: |
| Salaries in Thailand for the average TEFLer are between Baht 30,000-Baht 40,000 per month at typical language schools in Thailand. |
The OP IS NOT an
He/She has home country certification, 5+ years exp, MA, CELTA, Dip EP, etc. With this CV he/she should be looking for the top 10-20% of schools and subsequent salaries and benefits.
We are most definitely not talking about typical language schools.
| Quote: |
| It is very unlikely that one will earn more than this. |
Those with passion, determination, professionalism, work ethic, decent ability in the classroom and ability to cope with the Thai education system and "play the game" can and should earn more than this (not much more but more). If you are here for more than a year and still making 30-35,000/month you are probably doing something wrong if salary is a factor for you (and if in Bangkok).
| Quote: |
| For international schools earning Baht 40,000 is on average |
*sigh* It's just not true. Only the worst of the worst International schools would pay that salary. In fact if you are looking at a salary of 40,000 baht to work at a school that claims to be International, just walk away because they aren't. Any school in Thailand can can themselves International. Salary is usually a good indication of the quality of management and student retainment. I know of 3 or 4 schools in this category and they have horrible reputations.
| Quote: |
| those who earn more than this are the likely few and competition is extremely keen for these jobs even with the right qualifications. |
*sigh* those who earn more than this are professionals, motivated, perform in the classroom, understand and accept the Thai school system. I have been in a position that requires me to hire for schools at the 30-4000 baht range, schools in the 40-55ish range and now at the 65-75,000 range at different points in my career. Competition is big in Thailand for the better jobs and also for the mid range 40-55,000/month. The OP has a CV that puts him at the top of the pile.
| Quote: |
| I would say about 90% of ALL Teflers teaching in international schools don't earn more than Baht 50,000 per month |
90% of positions at International schools are not for TEFL'ers. The OP IS NOT a TEFL'er. Foreign teachers at International schools usually teach core subjects, not EFl (there are some EFL positions). The better International schools will require that teachers have home country certification and at least 2 years experience. If a school says they are International and doesn't require home country certification and experience than its probably not a great school. The exception is for some maths and sciences especially in the higher secondary grades. These subjects are very hard to fill and thus some schools will hire teachers and help them towards certification or just get them a 2 year waiver and keep looking.
| Quote: |
| based on the TEFL market supply and demand here in Thailand |
| Quote: |
| several of my colleagues here in Thailand working at so called international schools have told me that as they have been here for decades. |
Anyone who has been here for decades and is still talking about and working in schools paying less than 40,000 baht/month are doing something wrong or dont care about salary. I would wager that they are working at the low tier "Int" schools. I mentioned these above.
To repeat and stay on topic. Based on the OP's CV and without interviewing him/her, he/she should be looking to make at least 50,000 baht/month to start and should be past 60,000 after a year. There is not reason he/she couldnt get more if he/she interviews well and gets a little lucky (no IGCSE or IB experience will probably exclude him/her from the top tier schools, but I have a similar CV and make more than double what some here claim to be possible).
There is also a lot of money to be made teaching privates (usually EFL, but sometimes tutoring in core subjects if you can) on the side. No reason you cant make 10-20000 baht/month extra if you dont mind working hard. Personally, I prefer having free time, but the offers are there.
Please read the OP and stick to that info. Info on TEFL/language schools will surely be welcome in the appropriate threads.
Winds, PM me if you want more proper info on schools in your range. |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| I wasn't talking about the pay at "2nd tier" internationals. |
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windsofchange
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 35
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks Mai Pen Rai I will PM you. Any ideas re Issan? |
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Eagle Eyes
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 121
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Teaching English in Isaan the average pay is between Baht 25,000 - Baht 40,000 per month (at the high end salary scale)...this is at both so called international schools and/or language schools. The benefits of teaching in Isaan are a lower cost of living than in Bangkok and that translates into more savings. Also note that in Isaan there is not much to really do...except of course if you can learn to entertain yourself. |
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MaiPenRai
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 390
Location: BKK
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I wasn't talking about the pay at "2nd tier" internationals. |
The OP is qualified (based solely on his/her info provided here) for mid tier schools in Thailand, it would seem appropriate that we would be giving him/her correct information on schools he/she is qualified for i.e. mid tier schools. Average salaries for mid-tier "International" schools are about double that of typical government schools in Thailand, which is more thanslightly higher.
Govern = 30-40,000+/month
Mid-Tier = 50-80,000+/month + bonuses and benefits for the better schools i.e. airfare, BUPA Int. insurance, 2-3 months paid holidays, no paperwork issues, completion bonuses, guaranteed annual cost of living raises, etc., etc.
To the OP,
| Quote: |
| Could I find good international schools on the internet? |
Check out this link for all ISAT (International Schools Assoc of Thailand) schools. There is a big range in quality of these schools, but its a start for you to do your own research.
http://www.isat.or.th/index.php?option=com_cbimzsearch&view=cbimzlist&Itemid=130
Keep in mind that a lot of schools in Thailand follow the Brit curriculum (IGSCE) and they prefer to hire teachers with IGSCE experience. Also some of the schools follow the IB curriculum which almost always require IB experience. Many new International teachers have to take a slightly less desirable job (poor location or newly accredited or candidate IB or IGCSE school) or slightly lower salary in order to get that IGSCE or IB exp. Once you have a year or 2, the International scene will really open up to you.
Off the top of my head, some schools that would be in the OP's range are:
Wells, Niva, TJAS, SBS (not International but 50,000+ salary), Prasanmit, Assumption, Pan Asia, Trail, Trinity, Singapore Int, Berkely, Garden, etc., etc. A lot of the mid-tier places hire in-country, but they sometimes prefer to try to hire from overseas first.
There are also many Thai private/Catholic schools/EP programs that are possible at the 50,000+ range. I have a link somewhere. Will try to find it and post later. These places almost always hire in-country.
Once again, the chances of landing a great Drama only position are slim, but if the OP is willing to do EFL or a mixture of Drama and something else, there should be a few options available in a good salary range.
| Quote: |
| Where would I source out a trade fair? NZ, Oz? |
The top schools and some mid-tier schools often hire predominantly from International Job Fairs. The big ones in Thailand seem to be Search Associates and ISS. Both require a membership fee ($100 or more), but offer access to the best schools, and also have a limited number of spots available so you need to sign up well in advance. They often have fairs in major cities worldwide. I would assume they would be in Sydney at some point in the year, but maybe not in NZ. A google search for these companies should let you know when and where the fairs will be. Often if you contact a school, they will tell you the fairs they will be attending or you can just ask. The hiring season for the 2012-13 academic year will be basically done for top tier schools. I think they usually come to Bangkok in January for the first round and then again in March/Aprilish for round 2 if they still haven't filled spots. Dont quote me on these dates.
Also, these jobs often pass along through connections. I know at least 3 teachers who did a year or 2 at a mid-tier school, made friends with management in better schools and are now on 100,000+ salaries.
| Quote: |
| Any ideas re Issan? |
A couple schools have sister campuses in the Korat (Nakhon Ratchasima) area. I think St.Stevens has a campus in Khao Yai (beautiful area of Korat). There is a new Int school in Chiang Rai that pays about 50-60,000 and seemed to have a decent reputation last year (based on info I got from a friend working there). Couple in Phuket and in Koh Samui. Garden is in Rayong. St. Andrews has a Rayong campus as well I think.
I am sure that there are a couple private Thai schools running EP programs in bigger cities like Khon Kaen, Udon, etc. that pay above average but I cant imagine they would be over 50,000/month. I could be wrong though.
Basically, not a lot of options in Issan for International Schools.
To reiterate, just 1 month ago a Drama/EFL position was available starting at 70,000/month at a school where a friend of mine does the hiring. The OP would have gotten an interview at the least. This job was advertised on the major Thailand teaching sites. Last year, a teacher I worked with moved to a school to teach Drama/Eng starting at 85,000. He has less experience than the OP and no MA.
If you have a B.Ed, Dip Ed, home country certification and experience, you are automatically in a different bracket than 80% of the "teachers" in Thailand. Doesn't necessarily mean these qualifications make you a better teacher, just means you are qualified to work at the higher paying and often better run schools. There are more and more teachers with home country certification in Thailand and that makes competition higher, but the jobs are out there.
Them's the facts.
Best of luck WOC. |
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