Job Discussion Forums

[rpayvin]

Hullo Everyone,

I am taking care of my checklist for what I need to bring to Vietnam in order to get a work permit if things work out that way and I find a job.

I have a BA, and a CELTA. I will soon have an RCMP criminal record check and VS check. I follow these forums regularly and have learned a lot about the expected process to get a work permit, but I would just like to get an up to date answer/opinion on whether I need to get "certified copies" of any of these documents and get them notarized while still here in Canada, or whether that copying and notarizing process is cheaper and more sensible to do in HCMC.

Thank you kindly.

[Dekadan]

Hey there, you said that you were getting things copied and notarized, I assume you mean everything including your degree. I worked for ILA, and they wanted the original version of my degree and my CELTA, not a notarized copy. I'm not sure what other schools will do though.

[inhanoi]

But the originals had to be notarized, yes?

[rpayvin]

I am bringing the originals of everything. I thought that at any point of both the hiring process as well as obtaining a work permit (which are often two different processes right?) then I will have to submit/show my original documents, but that there is some kind of notarization requirement.

Particularly regarding obtaining a work permit, several posters have mentioned that notarized copies of their degrees and other qualifications have been asked for after seeing the originals, since administration/government can't keep your originals. Let me know if I have gotten this wrong somehow. Finally, inhanoi, maybe this is a stupid question, but i've never been asked for my original degree to be notarized - how would one do that?

[Andy123]

Schools do not care about notarized paperwork unless they fear an inspection and need to produce work permits. It changes by the week or month.

On the positive side my Canadian friends seem to have the friendliest and covenant governmental procures for WP. The safest bet is to follow the procedure of getting them notarized by your educational institution/government then the Vietnamese embassy in Canada. Then you are safe. You only need a stamped degree for a WP process.

My personal experience is that 75% of the people never go through the process and if it is required they just go to another school. I know one guy who has been in country for 8 years with no paperwork. When the turnover rate is so high why bother.

Best of luck and try not to stress because it mostly likely is not worth it. I stressed a lot and spent much money and what I gained with a
WP and residence card was NOT worth it. Most seem to do just fine without it. Lucky *beep*!

[inhanoi]

It's easy to tell new arrivals that they don't need a WP when you have one along with the one-year visa that goes with it. rpayvin, please follow through with your documents and WP plans, any good school (good to work for, good to study at) will require the docs before hiring you. That school will also cover all the paperwork and costs, it will be painless for you.

To say that schools only want the docs if an inspection is coming applies only to the worst of schools, and it's silly anyway, what good would it do the school to scramble for them at the last minute? Dozens of schools were recently shut down or fined in Hanoi. Hopefully the same will happen in HCMC.

Of course anyone can find teaching work without the required documents, but they are faced with constant visa issues hanging over their heads, and with dodgy school management. The suggestion that you just move on to another school if docs are required is depressing, that's no way to live, especially if you have any sense of professional pride.

If needed, you can have your original degree notarized. Ask your Uni, they are familiar with the process. But I wasn't advising that this is necessary, I was asking. My original has a notarization statement permanently attached to it.

[Andy123]

[snollygoster]

I made the mistake over and over again thinking that teaching here is about quality education and the potential to change lives. So did I- bad mistake.
The best advice is to learn to play the game, have some jingle in your pocket and network, network and network.
The ONLY way.

[inhanoi]

Well, I'm happy to say that my experience has been the exact opposite. And I have similar anecdotal evidence to demonstrate that others have also done well. I wonder why there is such a stark difference.

[Jbhughes]

Well, how long have you been in Vietnam Inhanoi? Have you worked at many schools?

May I suggest, and this is not a slight, that you work at one of the foreign-owned schools like ILA or Apollo? You came over here, did one of their CELTAs and then worked for them? You brought all the required documents along with you and they sorted out your w.p without a problem?

There's nothing wrong with any of the above of course and I could be completely wrong. However, at how many schools will the experience be similarly painless? A w.p. gained at one school does not entitle you to work at another. There has been mentions of w.p transfers on this board, but it seems to be of the 'my-mate-used to-work-up-in-Hanoi-and-he-reckoned-he-had-a-w.p-up-there, too' nature, rather than something more concrete (hmm concrete, in Vietnam, wishful thinking?)

I have got a work permit. I went through all the bloody hoops to get it (I don't work at ILA, Apollo or some-such school). Sure, I have a temporary residency card, but I can't use my w.p. to work/go somewhere else. Sure, my card has one year on it, but now I'm at the mercy of the school - not working there potentially entails no more validity on that card. What else has the expense and ball-ache got me? Nothing. Less hassles and fines for the school though.

[inhanoi]

It would be interesting to see some honest demographics on the "usual" posters here. The posts seem to be heavily weighted toward the cynical, burn-out types. I've known a number of them. I've also known a good number of people in love with Vietnam, or with teaching, or both. It may well be that the unhappy people are far more likely to go on the internet and write about their experiences. The happy ones are too busy being happy.

[VietCanada]

If you need certified copies you can get them at the Canadian consulate or embassy. It costs $50 USD a pop last time I did it.

My understanding is that you will need certified or notarized copies of your degree at least and that getting it done at the Canadian embassy or consulate is preferred.

It kind of makes sense in that the country you are going to knows the embassy or consulate but has no idea who your lawyer was. Credibility. It's safer to do it after you've landed.

Some posters had it done before they left with no trouble but I would suggest trying to do that at the embassy of the country you're traveling to if you wish.

You could do it somewhere else at home if it's cheap and it may be perfectly ok but be prepared financially to do it again at your embassy or consulate just in case.

Things that make perfect sense to you in your country may be just weird to others in theirs. You're not in Canmore anymore.

[Dekadan]

Wow, this thread took off in a different direction after I replied. I haven't had a chance to get back on until now. Yes TS, I believe I did have to get the originals notarized, but it's been a few years. I can't recall what I got notarized, but it was done by a lawyer friend and I never had any problems with it after that. I would definitely take care of business before you go, it costs you little in time and effort and could save you running around when you're over there.

The second job I worked at was after me to get my documents, but I never did get it to them (stayed for only 5 months). In the end, it worked out for me as I got paid and I don't believe they had any issues. I wouldn't be surprised if you could hop around from job to job without ever having to produce what is required, as others have said. Still, why take the chance if you don't have to?

In regards to teaching being valued to change lives by the school, I've definitely had experience with the cynicals' side and I've seen teachers that have stayed in that job too long suffer from burnout. Playing the game and networking is definitely important (especially in Viet Nam), but there's got to be a sense of pride in the job otherwise you'll just see yourself as a mercenary. ESL teaching is already sneered at by most of the West (e.g., "It's not really teaching."), it's up to you to endorse this opinion or not. If you get into a job where the business is not just the bottom line - and let's face it, these are private schools and therefore businesses, they NEED to make money - but the ONLY line , then it's up to you to get out of that situation. Your character would have to be made up of Teflon not to be affected by that after a while.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I readily admit I'm still somewhat new to the game, but I'm not ready to concede to the pessimists' (realists'?) viewpoint yet. Maybe in a few years I'll come back to my postings at laugh at my naivete.

rpayvin, I'm curious, when do you expect to go?

[rpayvin]

Good Day All,

Thanks for the input everyone.

I am aware that there are those that cross all their t's and dot all of their i's and on the other extreme, those that job hop all over the place. In between, there seems to be every shade of grey. I am happy to hear from all of you. None of that worries me too much, I believe I am quite adaptable and am preparing myself for as many eventualities as possible, hence my questions regarding notarization here in Canada. I am prepared to potentially do it all again on the fly and jump through all kinds of hoops when I get there.

VietCanada, if there is anything document-related specifically regarding Canadians that you can think of and if you have the time, please do not hesitate to pm me. The sticky regarding documentation seems to be more US oriented. I will have an RCMP check, although I understand I may have to wait 6 months and get a criminal record check there anyway.

Thanks again everyone. Dek, I am traveling through the country and doing the tourist thing for the end of Feb. and March, and will take a look at Hanoi and HCMC during that time. Then I will start looking for jobs come April.

[inhanoi]

That police check thing works this way: Newly arrived, you do need the check from your last place of residence. After 6 months of continuous living in VN (proven with your passport/visas and rental lease) then they will accept a local police check if you haven't gotten the WP by then. Once you get the WP (usually good for 2-3 years), you just need proof of current residence to renew your visa yearly.