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thebettypie
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 10
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 Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:27 am Post subject: Another plea for MA advice |
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I'm in the process choosing graduate programs to apply to, and I could use some advice about which type of program I should go for. These are the relevant details:
My background: I'm 26, from the US. I have a BA in Social Science, 1 year experience teaching English in Korea (public school), and 6 years of experience in early childhood education. I've been back from Korea for just under a year.
My goals: I came home from Korea to go to graduate school. I'd like to earn a teaching Master's, probably a MA TESOL since I want to return abroad after grad school and make teaching ESL my career. I like teaching adults but much prefer young children. I'm interested in good TEFL jobs- ones with decent pay at schools that are actual places of learning, not just business. International schools are not a must, but I wouldn't mind eventually having them as an option. Ideally, I would be able to teach ESL whenever I decide to come home later down the road.
My dilemma: I could use some advice about what kind of MA I should get, specifically whether it should be a program that leads to teacher certification? I want to do a MA TESOL but have not come across many that actually lead to certification. Should I just do a MAT that gets me certified for k-12 instead? Would that get me any respectable ESL jobs? or MAT + CELTA/DELTA? or stick with the MA TESOL and worry about certification later?
I'd appreciate your feedback and advice. Thanks! |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Another plea for MA advice |
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| thebettypie wrote: |
I'm in the process choosing graduate programs to apply to, and I could use some advice about which type of program I should go for. These are the relevant details:
My background: I'm 26, from the US. I have a BA in Social Science, 1 year experience teaching English in Korea (public school), and 6 years of experience in early childhood education. I've been back from Korea for just under a year.
My goals: I came home from Korea to go to graduate school. I'd like to earn a teaching Master's, probably a MA TESOL since I want to return abroad after grad school and make teaching ESL my career. I like teaching adults but much prefer young children. I'm interested in good TEFL jobs- ones with decent pay at schools that are actual places of learning, not just business. International schools are not a must, but I wouldn't mind eventually having them as an option. Ideally, I would be able to teach ESL whenever I decide to come home later down the road.
My dilemma: I could use some advice about what kind of MA I should get, specifically whether it should be a program that leads to teacher certification? I want to do a MA TESOL but have not come across many that actually lead to certification. Should I just do a MAT that gets me certified for k-12 instead? Would that get me any respectable ESL jobs? or MAT + CELTA/DELTA? or stick with the MA TESOL and worry about certification later?
I'd appreciate your feedback and advice. Thanks! |
Honestly, go for a B.(elementary) Ed. with a specialization in ECE (2 years post grad).
You get little kids or primary kids, international schools, English program k-12 schools and bilingual schools are all an option as is any decent kindergarten on the planet.
Heck, do that and I will hire you.
It is so difficult to get teachers who want to work with young learners, have the credentials to go with it and want to work abroad.
Go the MATESOL route if you want to get into tertiary education, further academia or move into research.
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Matt_22
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Another plea for MA advice |
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| tttompatz wrote: |
| thebettypie wrote: |
I'm in the process choosing graduate programs to apply to, and I could use some advice about which type of program I should go for. These are the relevant details:
My background: I'm 26, from the US. I have a BA in Social Science, 1 year experience teaching English in Korea (public school), and 6 years of experience in early childhood education. I've been back from Korea for just under a year.
My goals: I came home from Korea to go to graduate school. I'd like to earn a teaching Master's, probably a MA TESOL since I want to return abroad after grad school and make teaching ESL my career. I like teaching adults but much prefer young children. I'm interested in good TEFL jobs- ones with decent pay at schools that are actual places of learning, not just business. International schools are not a must, but I wouldn't mind eventually having them as an option. Ideally, I would be able to teach ESL whenever I decide to come home later down the road.
My dilemma: I could use some advice about what kind of MA I should get, specifically whether it should be a program that leads to teacher certification? I want to do a MA TESOL but have not come across many that actually lead to certification. Should I just do a MAT that gets me certified for k-12 instead? Would that get me any respectable ESL jobs? or MAT + CELTA/DELTA? or stick with the MA TESOL and worry about certification later?
I'd appreciate your feedback and advice. Thanks! |
Honestly, go for a B.(elementary) Ed. with a specialization in ECE (2 years post grad).
You get little kids or primary kids, international schools, English program k-12 schools and bilingual schools are all an option as is any decent kindergarten on the planet.
Heck, do that and I will hire you.
It is so difficult to get teachers who want to work with young learners, have the credentials to go with it and want to work abroad.
Go the MATESOL route if you want to get into tertiary education, further academia or move into research.
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I really disagree with this.
You already have your four year degree, and going back to do another one with an extra specialization is a giant waste of time and money. Not to mention, a BA in Ed kind of pigeonholes you professionally. Better to have some flexibility.
There's a global studies program through The College of New Jersey that I think suits your perfectly, as it did me. You can get a MA in TESOL (or even just a cert if you'd prefer) that includes a K-12 teaching certification in ESL for the state of New Jersey. You'd have the option of working at public schools pretty much anywhere in the US, and at international schools as well.
And once you have that first certification, you can qualify for other endorsements based on your university transcript. You would likely be able to get an elementary generalist endorsement, as well as a social studies endorsement based on your major. If you do the extra credits for the MA, you also get that option of exploring tertiary teaching options, should you decide to eventually.
The really nice part is that all the courses are offered during a tight summer window, so teachers are able to squeeze in their courses during their schedules. Not bad flying off to Mallorca to go work on the old Master's degree. |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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I also disagree with getting a B.Ed. You already have a BA, sure it's unrelated but in the US system only about 1/3 of your credits are related to your major. Due an MAT or MEd that gives you K-12 certification in at the very least ESL if not ESL and another subject like Social Studies perhaps. That also opens up all the jobs tttompatz described in his post. But please do keep in mind that not all MAs are created equal, yes some are very theoretical and research focused, others are not. One that gives you K-12 certification will probably require a semester long practicum, which is a very good thing.
But more than anything, one should go back to school, because one has fallen in love with the program they are entering, so do what calls you--not what we say. |
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fladude
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Bachelor of Ed makes no sense to me at all. There isn't a state in the Union which requires you to have one, as long as other certification requirements are met. Getting the Masters in TESOL or a Masters in Education with TESOL and English endorsements is the way to go. If you want to teach kids in schools, the Masters in Ed would probably be a wiser move than TESOL. If you want to teach adults the Masters in TESOL is the way to go. As for international schools, I am not aware of any which require you to have a B'ED. If any did, I'm sure the same school would accept an M'ED.
The M'ED with TESOL cert makes the most sense to me. And while I do know teachers with a Masters in TESOL who are working at good paying International Schools in primary, I still believe that the Masters in ED would be a better move, since it would be more useful back in the states, especially if you ever decide to move into admin. A Bachelors in ED, on the other hand would do zero to improve your pay, even at an International School, whereas a Masters often adds 5-10k to your pay (although the Masters in TESOL should get you that as well). |
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thebettypie
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:45 am Post subject: Re: Another plea for MA advice |
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| tttompatz wrote: |
Honestly, go for a B.(elementary) Ed. with a specialization in ECE (2 years post grad) |
Ttompatz, any reason you recommended a B.Ed over a M.Ed? I've read many, many threads and you seem knowledgeable, but the second Bachelor's idea doesn't seem to be a popular one.
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It is so difficult to get teachers who want to work with young learners, have the credentials to go with it and want to work abroad.
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That is exactly what I want to do. Just got to get the credentials squared away.
It seems everyone agrees that the MATESOL is not the way to go. Am I understanding correctly if I surmise that either an M.Ed or MAT that leads to either K-3 or k-12 certification in ESL is what I want? |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:13 am Post subject: Re: Another plea for MA advice |
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| thebettypie wrote: |
| tttompatz wrote: |
Honestly, go for a B.(elementary) Ed. with a specialization in ECE (2 years post grad) |
Ttompatz, any reason you recommended a B.Ed over a M.Ed? I've read many, many threads and you seem knowledgeable, but the second Bachelor's idea doesn't seem to be a popular one.
| Quote: |
It is so difficult to get teachers who want to work with young learners, have the credentials to go with it and want to work abroad.
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That is exactly what I want to do. Just got to get the credentials squared away.
It seems everyone agrees that the MATESOL is not the way to go. Am I understanding correctly if I surmise that either an M.Ed or MAT that leads to either K-3 or k-12 certification in ESL is what I want? |
Completing a B.E.Ed (with an ECE specialization) post grad takes 2-3 semesters (practicum included) as compared to the time and cost of a M.Ed or MAT.
It serves your intended purpose (getting into working with young learners at better / "real" K-12 schools abroad) with a minimum of time, fuss and expense. It also gives you the (practical) tools for use in the classroom (how) as compared to the theoretical of the when, where, and why to use something.
It clears the way to teacher licensing in foreign countries with a minimum of fuss compared to an unrelated degree or M.Ed without the B.Ed.
(Thailand is but one example where someone with a B.Ed can do the culture course and get a 5-year teacher's license but I, with a masters and not the education undergrad need to take the full 9 section, 4 exam battery of tests PLUS the culture course.)
Getting your 2nd undergrad does however have limitations. If you want to move beyond the classroom or move up to higher levels then an M.Ed may be the way to go. Be careful what M.Ed to look at. The realm of focus at the masters levels tends to narrow significantly over your undergrad. (headed for administration, research, curriculum development, pedagogy, path to further academia (PhD), etc.)
Explore your options, look at the programs and make an informed choice.
There are as many paths as there are types of work. Pick the destination (job requirements and countries/continents) then map your (educational) route to get there. There is no one-size-fits-all option.
Just my humble opinion. I am aware that the opinions of others may differ.
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Thebettypie, I have an M.A. in Teaching (MAT) in Multidisciplinary Studies, which emphasizes content mastery, curriculum development, and classroom instruction. My chosen content area was TEFL. I could have easily gone the secondary education route with my MAT; however, I'd always intended on teaching EFL to older teens and adults and presently teach in a university in the Middle East. |
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thebettypie
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:50 am Post subject: Re: Another plea for MA advice |
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| tttompatz wrote: |
Completing a B.E.Ed (with an ECE specialization) post grad takes 2-3 semesters (practicum included) as compared to the time and cost of a M.Ed or MAT.
It serves your intended purpose (getting into working with young learners at better / "real" K-12 schools abroad) with a minimum of time, fuss and expense. It also gives you the (practical) tools for use in the classroom (how) as compared to the theoretical of the when, where, and why to use something.
It clears the way to teacher licensing in foreign countries with a minimum of fuss compared to an unrelated degree or M.Ed without the B.Ed.
(Thailand is but one example where someone with a B.Ed can do the culture course and get a 5-year teacher's license but I, with a masters and not the education undergrad need to take the full 9 section, 4 exam battery of tests PLUS the culture course.)
Getting your 2nd undergrad does however have limitations. If you want to move beyond the classroom or move up to higher levels then an M.Ed may be the way to go. Be careful what M.Ed to look at. The realm of focus at the masters levels tends to narrow significantly over your undergrad. (headed for administration, research, curriculum development, pedagogy, path to further academia (PhD), etc.)
Explore your options, look at the programs and make an informed choice.
There are as many paths as there are types of work. Pick the destination (job requirements and countries/continents) then map your (educational) route to get there. There is no one-size-fits-all option.
Just my humble opinion. I am aware that the opinions of others may differ.
. |
Interesting. I wasn't considering second Bachelor's programs before, but what you're saying makes sense. I will at least broaden the scope of programs I'm considering to include any B.Ed options that fit the bill.
Would you say that legitimate ECE jobs abroad will require an ECE focused degree? As opposed to a general degree in education or even a k-12 certification?
So, if I do go with a B.Ed in ECE, or any other degree that is not ESL focused, should I also be seeking ESL certification at the same time, or before I go abroad again anyway? I don't think most ECE degrees have an ESL emphasis option. |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Another plea for MA advice |
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| thebettypie wrote: |
| tttompatz wrote: |
Completing a B.E.Ed (with an ECE specialization) post grad takes 2-3 semesters (practicum included) as compared to the time and cost of a M.Ed or MAT.
It serves your intended purpose (getting into working with young learners at better / "real" K-12 schools abroad) with a minimum of time, fuss and expense. It also gives you the (practical) tools for use in the classroom (how) as compared to the theoretical of the when, where, and why to use something.
It clears the way to teacher licensing in foreign countries with a minimum of fuss compared to an unrelated degree or M.Ed without the B.Ed.
(Thailand is but one example where someone with a B.Ed can do the culture course and get a 5-year teacher's license but I, with a masters and not the education undergrad need to take the full 9 section, 4 exam battery of tests PLUS the culture course.)
Getting your 2nd undergrad does however have limitations. If you want to move beyond the classroom or move up to higher levels then an M.Ed may be the way to go. Be careful what M.Ed to look at. The realm of focus at the masters levels tends to narrow significantly over your undergrad. (headed for administration, research, curriculum development, pedagogy, path to further academia (PhD), etc.)
Explore your options, look at the programs and make an informed choice.
There are as many paths as there are types of work. Pick the destination (job requirements and countries/continents) then map your (educational) route to get there. There is no one-size-fits-all option.
Just my humble opinion. I am aware that the opinions of others may differ.
. |
Interesting. I wasn't considering second Bachelor's programs before, but what you're saying makes sense. I will at least broaden the scope of programs I'm considering to include any B.Ed options that fit the bill.
Would you say that legitimate ECE jobs abroad will require an ECE focused degree? As opposed to a general degree in education or even a k-12 certification?
So, if I do go with a B.Ed in ECE, or any other degree that is not ESL focused, should I also be seeking ESL certification at the same time, or before I go abroad again anyway? I don't think most ECE degrees have an ESL emphasis option. |
Again... the answer is, "It depends."
A B.Ed in elementary education (g1-6) will work but the focus tends to be 7-12 year olds.
A B.Ed in ECE if you want to work in the early years (3-7 year olds).
A B.Ed (elementary) if you want the broadest reach in general education.
A B.Ed/M.Ed/MATESOL if you want high school/university.
Is it necessary to have an ECE specialization = no. (but it would pretty much guarantee you a job at our schools in the early years classrooms).
We also hire people with a BEED and classroom experience for both kindergarten and elementary.
The same is true in many decent schools but there are always schools/kindergartens who don't care (education for profit as you eluded to in your original post).
At the younger end of the age range you do NOT need a TEFL cert. It is meaningless in value at those ages (hence why you don't find ESL endorsements in ECE) and you will be a teacher in English not an EFL teacher.
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thebettypie
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Okay, gotcha. The degree in ECE gets me to the top of the list for ECE teaching jobs abroad, but it sounds like I'd need a different, ESL-type degree to open my prospects up to actually teach ESL to school-aged children, except maybe Kindergarten.
I do much prefer very young children, but I do want to be qualified to teach elementary-aged students as well.
I'm thinking about doing a B.Ed or M.Ed with an ECE emphasis, and then adding a TEFL endorsement to it. For the moment, that seems to cover all of my bases. |
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Matt_22
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| thebettypie wrote: |
Okay, gotcha. The degree in ECE gets me to the top of the list for ECE teaching jobs abroad, but it sounds like I'd need a different, ESL-type degree to open my prospects up to actually teach ESL to school-aged children, except maybe Kindergarten.
I do much prefer very young children, but I do want to be qualified to teach elementary-aged students as well.
I'm thinking about doing a B.Ed or M.Ed with an ECE emphasis, and then adding a TEFL endorsement to it. For the moment, that seems to cover all of my bases. |
Like I mentioned earlier, a program like the one at TCNJ offers a M.Ed in TESOL that would give you a state teaching license, while also giving you the opportunity to get the elementary K-5 endorsement. Sounds like that would offer you the best chance of working with young learners while also having the ESL specialization. Furthermore it gives you the Master's which will bump your pay a bit.
And while there are always plenty of primary teaching slots available internationally, there are also plenty of primary teachers available that are looking for work - especially the last few years, from what I've heard. Better to get the degree and the certifications that give you the most flexibility, imo. |
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thebettypie
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Matt_22 wrote: |
Like I mentioned earlier, a program like the one at TCNJ offers a M.Ed in TESOL that would give you a state teaching license, while also giving you the opportunity to get the elementary K-5 endorsement. Sounds like that would offer you the best chance of working with young learners while also having the ESL specialization. Furthermore it gives you the Master's which will bump your pay a bit.
And while there are always plenty of primary teaching slots available internationally, there are also plenty of primary teachers available that are looking for work - especially the last few years, from what I've heard. Better to get the degree and the certifications that give you the most flexibility, imo. |
Yeah, I think you're right about a Master's being the better choice, I would prefer to have that over a second Bachelor's.
The program you mentioned probably wouldn't work as well for me though, because my chosen age specialty is very young children- Pre-K through grade 3, maybe. I do want the elementary Ed qualification in order to broaden my job options, but I want to be highly qualified for ECE. Hence, a degree in ECE that leads to teacher certification, then a K-12 ESL endorsement. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| thebettypie wrote: |
Yeah, I think you're right about a Master's being the better choice, I would prefer to have that over a second Bachelor's.
The program you mentioned probably wouldn't work as well for me though, because my chosen age specialty is very young children- Pre-K through grade 3, maybe. I do want the elementary Ed qualification in order to broaden my job options, but I want to be highly qualified for ECE. Hence, a degree in ECE that leads to teacher certification, then a K-12 ESL endorsement. |
If you want to be highly qualified for ECE and with a language learning component, then perhaps something like George Mason Uni's M.Ed. in Curriculum & Instruction with a concentration in ECE of Diverse Learners might interest you. |
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thebettypie
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:04 am Post subject: |
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And the plot thickens...
I've just been accepted to a local Master's Program. It's an M.Ed-ECE that does NOT lead to teacher licensure. Initially, when I applied, I did not know how important being a certified teacher was in the international teaching world.
I love this program and really want to do it, but it would leave me both un-certified and lacking the language learning component. I am worried that without these two things I'll be severely limiting my qualification and therefore my job offers abroad. |
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