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Moonshadow_51
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 143
Location: Turkey
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 Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:39 am Post subject: Education Experts Co. and visas |
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I have been offered a position with this group, with the particular assignment being left undetermined until I arrive in Riyadh. The question I have is in regard to the visitor work visa and its validity.
Since I shall be going to the KSA directly from another country, I will not be returning to the USA to file for a full work visa. Education Experts has given me the option of working with the visitor work visa for the full year, and I wish to know if any instructors have run into issues with this status.
Also, since this group is providing an apartment that is not in a compound, what can I expect as a woman? Do these apartment houses have convenient food stores within them, so necessities are available?
I most likely will turn down this offer, but would appreciate fair descriptions on what to expect. Thanks. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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A "visitors work visa"??? I don't believe that there is any such thing. I suspect that you would be working illegally... though that is not terribly unusual in Saudi. It is also much cheaper for the employers to get, though you will have basically given up all your legal rights as a worker. In a country like Saudi, it is a bit of a risk IMHO.
VS |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Moonshadow_51,
There is no such document as a "visitor's work visa" (which is actually an oxymoron.) There is a "business visa," but if you go with that visa, it's illegal to work in the Kingdom. Some recruiters have used this "business visa" as a fast (illegal) way to hire teachers. Unfortunately, it means that you will have NO legal rights in the Kingdom (since you will be breaking Saudi law,) and you will be unable to do such actions as open a bank account or get a driver's license:
"Question
I have received a job offer from a consultant in Saudi Arabia. He is offering me a post in the Riyadh bank and is asking me to come on Business Visa first, after which he said he will get it changed to work permit. My question here is what is the validity of that business visa? And how much time will it take to convert a business visa into a work permit? For how long can one work on a business visa? Is it legal to work on a business visa? If I want to bring my wife with me, what are the alternatives? I am having a very good job in India. I need your advice before I resign here in India. Please guide me.
Answer
You are not allowed to work if you are on a business visa here. A business visa also cannot be converted into a work visa. Work visas are issued separately. Please ask the consultant to send you a work visa."
http://saudilife.net/qa/91-law/9495-coverting-business-visa-into-work-permit
It's been done, but most who have done it and posted here on Dave's have found that it was not a good experience. It IS risky, and Saudi is hard enough without being there illegally, too.
Regards,
John |
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Moonshadow_51
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 143
Location: Turkey
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: Education Experts Co. and visas |
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Thanks to all for information on the company, and special thanks to those who wrote me privately to discuss the so-called visiting work visa.
It's best to pass on this opportunity. First, it is too difficult to get back to the States to apply for the lawful visa; secondly, no compound is provided and living in an apartment without the community freedom seems just too hard for a western woman.
Best. |
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Warning Bells
Joined: 10 Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Location: Always Changes
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
| you will be unable to do such actions as open a bank account or get a driver's license: |
She cannot get a driver's license in Saudi Arabia until they lift the ban on female drivers. |
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Moonshadow_51
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 143
Location: Turkey
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: Education Experts Co. and visas |
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I'm actually surprised that foreign men are permitted to drive. All very interesting, but the information shared here today brought things to mindful closure.
I'm better off staying where I am: happy and law abiding, with all the freedom I could ask for.  |
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Warning Bells
Joined: 10 Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Location: Always Changes
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Education Experts Co. and visas |
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| Moonshadow_51 wrote: |
| I'm actually surprised that foreign men are permitted to drive. |
It's funny you should mention that because in the Middle East most all of the hired drivers are foreign men (Pakistani, Afghan, Bangledehshi, Indian, etc.). I think you can imagine how their cars smell.
I'm glad you made the right decision! |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 2:58 am Post subject: Re: Education Experts Co. and visas |
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| Warning Bells wrote: |
| It's funny you should mention that because in the Middle East most all of the hired drivers are foreign men (Pakistani, Afghan, Bangledehshi, Indian, etc.). I think you can imagine how their cars smell. |
I find this an odd assumption. These are not manual laborers and I would expect that they are provided with showers. I find this to be a bit... racist?
VS |
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Moonshadow_51
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 143
Location: Turkey
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 5:13 am Post subject: Education Experts Co. and visas |
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I should have been clearer: I am surprised that male foreign teachers/instructors/lecturers purchase or lease cars and are able to drive in the KSA.
As an aside to the job discussion, I found it interesting that the woman who was arrested for driving last week did not actually break any law. According to the report, she was arrested for non-standard behavior but there is no black letter law prohibiting women from driving there; it is, however, a strong religious edict: http://www.arabianbusiness.com/saudi-arabia-must-free-female-driver-says-rights-group--402043.html
Back to the topic - I have written ED EX to ask for clarification on the 'visiting work visa'. Though I expect I shall decline the offer, I shall report back to all on their clarification after the ME weekend.
Might I add on a kind note how much I appreciate my friends from the ME, and fro all walks of life. Warm regards. |
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Warning Bells
Joined: 10 Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Location: Always Changes
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Education Experts Co. and visas |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Warning Bells wrote: |
| It's funny you should mention that because in the Middle East most all of the hired drivers are foreign men (Pakistani, Afghan, Bangledehshi, Indian, etc.). I think you can imagine how their cars smell. |
I find this an odd assumption. These are not manual laborers and I would expect that they are provided with showers. I find this to be a bit... racist?
VS |
It's not an assumption. It's a generalization. Their cars stink! If telling someone that their car stinks is racist, then we need to come up with another definition for racism. |
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DenUk
Joined: 08 Aug 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Ask me..
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Education Experts Co. and visas |
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| Moonshadow_51 wrote: |
| I'm better off staying where I am: happy and law abiding, with all the freedom I could ask for. |
A high salary isn't always the driving factor (only if your coming to ME  )... Find an educational institution or go somewhere where you've always dreamed of and experience the country and lifestyle
Here endeth the lesson  |
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Warning Bells
Joined: 10 Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Location: Always Changes
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Education Experts Co. and visas |
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| Moonshadow_51 wrote: |
| I should have been clearer: I am surprised that male foreign teachers/instructors/lecturers purchase or lease cars and are able to drive in the KSA |
Why are your surprised? I would think foreign teachers/instructors/lecturers would be some of the best drivers in the Middle East. Most of us have our DLs from our home countries and we generally drive a lot more cautiously than the locals. In most countries, you can use your International Driver's Permit to drive a car that you lease, rent, borrow or buy. So why would any country single out people whose occuation happens to be in the field of education? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Education Experts Co. and visas |
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| Moonshadow_51 wrote: |
| I should have been clearer: I am surprised that male foreign teachers/instructors/lecturers purchase or lease cars and are able to drive in the KSA |
If you look at the rest of the Gulf outside of Saudi, you will see that nearly all teachers have cars and drives... this female had and drove a car in Kuwait, Oman, and the UAE.
VS |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Education Experts Co. and visas |
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| Warning Bells wrote: |
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Warning Bells wrote: |
| It's funny you should mention that because in the Middle East most all of the hired drivers are foreign men (Pakistani, Afghan, Bangledehshi, Indian, etc.). I think you can imagine how their cars smell. |
I find this an odd assumption. These are not manual laborers and I would expect that they are provided with showers. I find this to be a bit... racist?
VS |
It's not an assumption. It's a generalization. Their cars stink! If telling someone that their car stinks is racist, then we need to come up with another definition for racism. |
A racist generalization. All X's stink. And yes, I was in a number of my student's cars in the UAE... with their drivers... and not one of them "stunk." I also encountered their drivers in the foyer of the college... and none of them "stunk."
Now, taxi drivers? Their living conditions of sharing shower facilities with a hoard is a whole different story. And not even all of them "stank."
VS |
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Moonshadow_51
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 143
Location: Turkey
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 5:34 pm Post subject: Education Experts Co. and visas |
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Is someone trying to get this thread locked? It is supposed to be on the topic of EdEx and visas.
Again, thanks for the tips. |
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