Job Discussion Forums

[VinnyG.]

I just discovered this board and have been working my way through the many pages of posts. Very interesting stories.

I would like to ask your advice since you have the gold stars and scars of experience.

As I am staring 50 in the knees, I've been exploring possible changes in my career path. At the moment I am looking at the possibility of taking a course or two in Japanese and the professional I am consulting suggested I look at teaching English. More searching led me to this board and realized what a rich resource this is.

A little background. I've been working in libraries for 26 years and got my masters in library science in 1996. Since then I've been a curator in special collections and rare books. I haven't taught university classes over a semester (the one I was supposed to teach in the history of the book and printing was cancelled). I have taught special workshops, brought in to lecture to classes for specific topics, and held special sessions on printing to design students using a 1800s printing press I restored. In addition for the past 10 summers I have been the assistant to a women teaching a specialized course in bookbinding where the students got 30 hours of instruction in 5 days. Though I wasn't the primary instructor, I presented special segments and worked one-on-one with the students (adults getting extra training) because the instructor was in her 90s (alas passed away a few months ago at 93). The youngest group I've presented to was a class of high-school students. Nothing younger. The professional I've been consulting thinks I should look at a path involving instruction.

I am trying to formulate a 2-year plan. At the moment, TESL/TEOL looks like an interesting path.

First question. At the moment, I am very curious about Japan. Can you recommend any good books about people moving to Japan and their experience living there?

Second question. What certification did you get, and now that you are there, do you think you chose the right course, or did you find you should have tried a different set of courses for certification?

Third question. I also did stand-up comedy part time over many years plus some close-up magic. While I don't do either when I give talks, it has made me more confident in groups and help me engage with the listeners. Would this be a positive in this field, or are classes so rigidly structured it would be frowned upon? I didn't put them on my CV when I applied for library jobs. Would this be perceived as a positive/negative or irrelevant?

Sorry about the length of the post. I didn't have time to write a short one (with apologies to Twain).

I'll withdraw back to lurker mode now. Vincent

[fluffyhamster]

Hello Vincent, and welcome to the forums!

There are a couple of threads that discuss books relating to Japan, with this perhaps the longest and most detailed (I've linked to my post within it):
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=696416#696416

Perhaps also drop by the General Discussion thread I've started regarding the 11th edition of Susan Griffith's Teaching English Abroad, once I've read the Japan section in it and more likely than not posted a few comments about that and the book generally.

Regarding your second question, the standard Japan advice is that any sort of English-teaching certification (" ~ " LOL - the CELTA, or some sort of TEFL or TESOL cert) isn't really necessary for work visa purposes, and (strangely or not) isn't valued much by most TEFL employers here anyway. (My own advice is thus to save the time and money and invest in some good books instead - again, seach or ask for recommendations...there was a recent thread on 'Your top 5 essential TEFL books' for starters! But I appreciate that gaining a cert, if a month and a few thousand dollars say isn't too much of a factor, could help show that you are at least committing~committed somewhat to the field, and if you can get a bit of temp work between completing that training and shipping over, that would doubtless help you in actually getting shipped over LOL). And if you mean actual teaching credentials, I'm not sure that there are (m)any on here who have managed to get any such qualifications recognized or upgraded into acquiring the same status in Japanese public schools (the language required for one thing would be a very obvious barrier to that) - rather, international schools (for expat kids etc, taught according to international curriculums) are the brighter beacon for those suitably qualified.

Your background in librarianship, bookbinding, printing etc, and the lecturing thereof, may give you some transferable skills, but to be honest is nothing that related~really marketable (and I say that as a bibliophile, bookseller, and one-time library assitant, with relatives who are qualified librarians). Probably the comedy and magic stuff will be of more use and value to you if you do start TEFLing, but again, it's sort of the "miscellaneous" part of the CV or resume rather than the "actual relevant work experience" part. (Not, as they often say, that TEFLing, certainly at its most basic/worst LOL, is exactly "rocket science").

There have been a few discussions or comments regarding possible ageism etc in the various branches of the TEFL industry here, but I guess that 50 isn't too old generally (though to be brutally honest, one gets the impression that callow youth, despite its inexperience etc etc, doesn't exactly hurt in this line of work!). I'm not sure with your Masters if you could somehow wangle your way into higher-level (i.e. uni) positions, but again, perceived relevance would be a factor.

[VinnyG.]

Dear Fluffyhamster,

Thanks for the reply. I'm seriously thinking about taking the courses just for the experience, classroom experience, etc.

The comedy/magic side is what's really given me confidence to speak to groups and teach. Getting to a gig and realizing it is in a biker bar makes almost any other public situation pale by comparison (especially when glass ashtrays are thrown at your head by drunks). I've suppressed this in the past when job hunting because it isn't taken seriously. Yet it has given me some of my most valuable experience.

Staring 50 in the face is scary. What I do with it is what going to get me past it.

I've read more postings on the forum including those about taking jobs in the smaller cities. One poster called a place with 200,000 small. I grew up on a farm in the middle of central Illinois. That was a big city to me then. My first time overseas was after graduating high school was a summer working on a farm in northern Denmark. Do you think the fact I am used to smaller towns helps if I pursue this avenue and look for jobs in Japan? How rural do they get?

And thanks for the book list. I hope others can recommend recent books. Looks like I will have to fire up my Amazon account.

I look forward to other responses to my inquiry.

Vincent

[Glenski]

Vinny,
I got into TEFL around age 40. That was more than 10 years ago, and I'm still here after coming in through the "back door" with a major and work experience totally unrelated to TEFL or teaching. I got a TESL certificate after a few months of training in 6-8 courses (some daytime intensive, some nighttime twice a week) from a language academy that worked with teachers from a local university (Seattle). It was worth it, but you can never have too much training. Lots comes directly from the job itself. Here in Japan, don't expect much on the job training; many employers might say they offer it, but it doesn't amount to much.

I would tend to agree with fluffyhamster on pretty much everything. Bear in mind that even your teaching/training experience may give you a sense of confidence in front of an audience and some measure of planning a lesson, but when it comes to teaching a foreign language, you need to consider:

1) your students likely will not understand a lot of what you say, sometimes less than half.

2) culture is important; students might expect one thing from a teacher, while you expect something else. Teacher-centered classes are common in Asian countries, but getting students to break that mold and ask/answer questions, volunteer, and work together to practice speaking can be like pulling teeth.

3) In addition to the lack of comprehension (item #1) due to sheer vocabulary, students will be facing a speaking speed barrier from you. They will need you to slow down, repeat, pause, etc. a lot more than you are used to.

Stand-up comedy might work a little in your favor. Humor has a problem translating across cultures, so keep that in mind. What I feel might be helpful is simply that you are willing to be silly or funny at times in order to make a point. This is part of what is called "edutainment" over here. I would urge people not to take it to extremes, though. Just use humor to put students at ease from time to time.

[VinnyG.]

Glenski,

Thanks. I appreciate the points. I guess I have you beat on one point. I grew up on a farm and the nearest town was 7 miles away with 500 people. I hadn't "experienced" foreigners until I went to university and got to know people who's first language was not English.

The comment on age has made me feel better about pursuing this. I have a couple years to take courses in Boston before I decide. Either things change and I stay or they implode and I jump. I figure coursework is never a waste, plus it gives one a chance to make connections and meet new people.

What you say about students agrees with what I've read elsewhere in the forum. But if I can't be flexible and adjust, then I wouldn't look down this path in the first place.

What you say about living in a more rural area sounds like when I worked in Denmark. In the middle of nowhere and only the younger kids spoke any English. It's amazing how fast you can learn the phrase, "Where is the bathroom?"

Since you are a fellow midwestern (from where?), did you find your neutral accent a positive?

[Glenski]

[OneJoelFifty]

Glenski, as something that I'm interested in, but also something that would probably be of use to older posters like Vinny, would you mind briefly mapping out your career path and mentioning any hurdles you came across that you feel are related to your age?

I've always thought that for most entry positions especially, barring perhaps corporate English classes, being on the young side of 30 is an advantage.

[Glenski]

Joel,
Not much to tell, and I've written about this before.

I decided to give TEFL a try as a means to get to Japan and find other work after the U.S. company where I had been working up and moved everything across the country (and most people stayed behind, creating a large pool of competition for similar jobs). Good as I felt I was at grammar and spelling, I thought it would be wise to get some sort of certificate, so I did. Ten years earlier, I also had worked in Tokyo for 5 months for an American company in the same field that I was leaving, so there was a measure of experience living/working in Japan there.

I'd been scouring the Internet (fledging reports available at that time, 1997) for about 6 months to collect and collate information on what sort of jobs and situations were out there. Today there is far more stuff widely available. I got lucky with an eikaiwa that came to the U.S. to interview me and 2 other people (only one of them showed up, bombed the interview by being too juvenile in his responses [the age thing in my favor at 41?]; yes, we were interviewed side by side!). I was also lucky in that they paid for airfare and rent. You will see darned few of these situations nowadays. No Skype back then.

I stayed there 3 years and created 3 new courses (science news topics discussion, debating, and general news topics discussion). They cut back to all part-time work, and since I was about to get married, I didn't want that. I left without another job in hand.

I started doing scientific proofreading then, but it was far from anything to support myself, let alone a family. So, I took on private lessons, and I landed a PT job (18 contact hours / week) at a private HS. These paid my salary 50-50. No need for a work visa then, as I was married to a Japanese. A year later, I took a 3-year contract to be a FT employee there. After that, despite protests from many, I had to leave. Stupid policy that even the principal couldn't overcome. Age didn't help.

I nearly accepted another HS job when I got hired at the uni where I am now. They specifically asked for someone with a master's in science to teach English (of course, they wanted some English teaching experience, too). I had both.

Has my age been a positive factor? I'd like to think it was for the eikaiwa job, simply because of the competition. Your mileage may vary. Also, my 2 coworkers there were roughly my age or a few years younger and had experience, and my boss was a mature Japanese. This may not be the case with other eikaiwas, and older teachers will have to take it to heart to work for a younger, perhaps poorly experienced manager (Japanese or otherwise).

Can't say whether age helped land the HS job. I was about 7-14 years older than the other FT and PT foreign teachers there. Half the Japanese teachers (or fewer) were my age, and the director of the English department at the time was a J woman roughly my age. I had one other offer at a HS before I went FT. No idea if age meant anything. Just before I got the PT job there, I had also interviewed with ECC Junior and lost out to a much younger woman, which I think was/is the going thing for little kids' classes anyway, and I'm glad I didn't get it.

At the uni, I am as old as the J director and a little older than the other foreign teacher who was here a few years earlier than me. Since then, we have hired only one more person, equal to my age. Was it an age thing, or credentials, or lack of anyone else applying? I'd applied to >30 other universities around the country (despite what I've written below), all at universities targeting science majors because of my U.S. work experience. No way of knowing if age meant anything to them; a few were advertising for people no older than 35 at the time, and I think that is something they cannot do nowadays.

Will age be a factor to some employers? Yes, if they perceive greenhorns to be better than veteran teachers or better than oldsters. It may also be a factor if one has a wife and children, because in some cases I think salaries need to go up to take them into account. Insurance rate goes up after 40, too. Not everyone is willing to fork out for any of that. Teaching younger students, as I mentioned earlier about ECC Jr., may also be something perceived for the younger set, as it requires a lot of energy and stamina.

Bear in mind one other factor, totally unrelated to age. My wife did not want to move out of the area, so I was pretty narrow in my job hunting geography except for uni job hunting.

[fluffyhamster]

@VinnyG: It's been a while since I did my cert, but IIRC the recommended response to discipline issues such as having glass ashtrays thrown at your head by drunken bikers (or indeed getting any sass from snivelling bratty schoolkids) is to do the "Stacey Keach" techniques (forget any "Blues Brothers" nonsense, you need to be zero-tolerance) as shown in the following UCLES instructional clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3VDYaS6Lpvk#t=159s ("The Ninth Configuration: Bar-Room Brawl Scene")

[fluffyhamster]

Back on a more serious note, I remembered another thread with book recommendations (but ones more related to actually TEFLing in Japan):
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=67932

[VinnyG.]

Fluffyhamster,

Nothing quite that bad, thank goodness. The last place I regularly did sets and hosted, once in a while we would have police walk in and remove someone from the audience. The last time I hosted, I had to get between a drunk and a comic while keeping an eye on another person I knew was carrying a switchblade. Another night was restraining a member of the audience with a cue stick in his hand. I had a good grip on that cue stick.

I assume teaching young kids English in Japan is safer.

[fluffyhamster]

[Pitarou]

[OneJoelFifty]

Thanks Glenski. I think the message there more than anything is that a masters in a transferrable subject is a very useful thing to have.