Job Discussion Forums

[Andyparkin]

My wife and I are experienced, mature TEFLers who have been teaching around the world for the last 10 years. We're CELTA qualified but don't have university degrees. We are going to turn up in Vietnam this summer, on spec, and look for work. Does anyone have any suggestions, where's best to go, likely schools, etc? We'd rather teach adults at any level. Thanks. Andy & Helen.

[Mattingly]

[skarper]

That's my guess as well.

Likely you will find work, but you'll have to bend over backwards to get it.

This means crappier hours, worse levels, less money etc - and unless you prove yourself adaptable, 'flexible' - aka spineless - and competent too you'll be thrown over for younger, fresher but 'qualified' people at the first opportunity.

I learned next ot zero and nothing at all I can apply in TEFL during my time at university, but I've been glad I stayed the course and finished with something on paper. And it was all free back in those days so really no reason not to.

[mark_in_saigon]

It really depends on multiple factors. If you have completed a lot of college hours, or have a 2 year degree, then that is a factor. If you have highly advanced skills that are provable and obvious, that is another. If you have published writings, that is another. William Safire never graduated from college but had a column on the English language in the New York Times, was also a speechwriter for a president of the U.S. If you are highly qualified (that is, skilled, not necessarily highly qualified with certifications) and you have a good overall profile, you are still a lot better than a lot of folks teaching here, and with a proper job of marketing your skills you can get good work.

Regardless of qualifications, I firmly believe the best profile for westerners who come over is to financially be able to live without working. Life is pretty cheap here, and the learning curve on working is pretty steep, one does not want to be forced to work in some job that turns out to be a disaster, as so many of them will turn out to be.

[inhanoi]

mark: "If you have completed a lot of college hours, or have a 2 year degree, then that is a factor. If you have highly advanced skills that are provable and obvious, that is another. If you have published writings..."

Sheesh. Do you seriously think those "western" promos carry any weigh here for ESL? MAYBE the 2-year degree, only because it is a certificate that can be notarized. But if you want a legit job, you have to have a degree. Period. Stop leading people on.

"I firmly believe the best profile for westerners who come over is to financially be able to live without working." Who wouldn't firmly believe that? And who would be posting questions about teaching here if they didn't need income?

[mark_in_saigon]

Yeah, it may seem obvious that you should have some money to pull this off, sorry if that offends you. There certainly are some guys who come here and teach who do not need the income, if you haven't met any, well, I sure have. I have also met very skilled people teaching here who do not have 4 year degrees. Sorry. Leading people on? Yikes, I am mostly on the side of the fence that says this is a very difficult environment and most folks should give it a pass. You will never get the general impression from me that people should come over here and expect this to be a great place to work. Live, maybe, work, no. Just trying to answer the original post with what I believe to be the truth. Your mileage may certainly vary.

[Oh My God]

[Andyparkin]

Thanks for all the interest guys. Maybe I can interpose some common ground here! We're not interested in making a fantastic living out of this (let's face it... who in this business is?) we just need enough to get by. We don't want to work in the brilliant, by-the-book institutions (got the t-shirts, already) any fly-by-night, second-rate joint would do. Got any ideas?

[The Mad Hatter]

I know a guy who has no degree and only works as a "manager". No one doubts him. Just like the saying goes: "the bigger lie". But in your case (s) how is this true? You have CELTA. yes technically a certificate, but it is a kind of degree. It is a lesser degree but a degree nonetheless. Do yourselves a favor and get the CELTA authenticated by a notary in the district or province where it was issued and a letter from the CELTA school on letterhead stationary that says it is a true copy of your CELTA (s). DO this before you come here, Don't just turn up, and you probably will get a work permit. OR else you will have to turn up in cambodia and pay a hefty visa fee every two months and turn up back here again and the police will turn up at your school and you will have to turn up in Cambodia again at the VN embassy. Have fun!

[mark_in_saigon]

The underlying issue in this kind of discussion may very well be self interest. There is no doubt that VN has a good number of folks in ESL that are surprisingly unqualified to teach English. Of course this can be disconcerting, and certainly it puts downward pressure on wages. So the natural tendency for just about any current ESL teacher here might be to prefer no one else came over to add to this downward pressure. There is also a similar tendency among many of the westerners here to just generally dislike other westerners being here. The way I see it is this. When one goes into a school or location that rarely sees us, we get a very positive response, we can be overwhelmed with it. In some school settings, it is almost a rock star response. One has to be very circumspect not to let it go to your head. Then, as we travel in the tourist areas, we see this positive response lost and replaced with disdain. Obviously, the more they see of us, the less this special treatment we get here is displayed. Paradise lost, as it were. I think none of us are immune to these very real concerns. Some of us are more honest about these things than others. Yeah, if I was in control, I would let no more of our guys in and would roll back a few tens of thousands at the same time. But I aint gonna lie about why. Still, I do meet the occasional westerner that has just come over that I genuinely like, and I am not going to lie about work or life here either. Work is barely worth doing in a lot of cases, both in significance of the work and in the amount of effort one has to put out in order to get an hour of paid work. The reason I am here is the life itself, I don't need the work to survive, and my financial profile is not improved in a significant way by being here. My longevity is likely decreased by the obvious reasons. I further think that most of the westerners who do come over for the most important reason (the happiness one can have in life here), tend to make a mess of the key part of that also, but that subject is only tangentially linked to the subject of ESL.