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bazzap1976
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 74
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 Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject: No degree |
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Hey guys. I hope someone can help me with this. As usual, I've checked for other threads but surprisingly didn't find anything on the topic.
My question regards working in KSR without a degree. I've heard that private language schools are willing to do this. Is this information correct? If so, then how would that affect salary and the various perks that may be had, had I had a degree.
If this has already been asked in another thread, could you please point me in the right direction?
Thanks in advance. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: No degree |
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| bazzap1976 wrote: |
| My question regards working in KSR without a degree. I've heard that private language schools are willing to do this. Is this information correct? If so, then how would that affect salary and the various perks that may be had, had I had a degree. Thanks in advance. |
You didn't find any info on Saudi TEFL jobs with that criteria probably because there simply aren't any. Many entry-level positions require a minimum of a BA, a valid TEFL cert., and a few years of TEFL experience, while others accept no less than a related masters degree. Additionally, depending on the visa, a degree may be required for entry into the country for work purposes. But seriously, you really wouldn't want to work in the Kingdom for an employer that hires teachers without degrees (if one exists). That's some bad mojo. Just plain bad.
There are still some TEFL situations in other parts of world that don't require a degree. However, those jobs are becoming scarce as more employers and visa regulations state that foreign workers be degreed. Check out the general and newbie forums for recent threads about where to teach without a degree as this topic has come up a few times over the past year.
Might be time to consider pursuing a degree...
Last edited by nomad soul on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: No degree |
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| bazzap1976 wrote: |
Hey guys. I hope someone can help me with this. As usual, I've checked for other threads but surprisingly didn't find anything on the topic.
My question regards working in KSR without a degree. I've heard that private language schools are willing to do this. Is this information correct? If so, then how would that affect salary and the various perks that may be had, had I had a degree.
If this has already been asked in another thread, could you please point me in the right direction?
Thanks in advance. |
The less qualified you are, the lower the salary and fewer the perks.
Quite simple really. You will be easy prey for the thugs and con artists of the various shady language mills because they are the only ones who would consider your lack of qualifications. You do NOT want to go down that path! Especially in KSA.
As Nomad Soul stated it is highly unlikley you would even get in to KSA without a proper degree. Beware, not all that glitters is gold! |
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desert_traveller
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by desert_traveller on Thu May 03, 2012 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bazzap1976
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmmmm.... pretty desperate! Ha ha! No, not really. Thanks for your information. A friend of mine worked in KSR and told me that on application, nothing more but a scanned copy of his degree was required. Food for thought on my part perhaps. Thanks again. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Lots of perople who are teaching in KSA SAY they have a degree. By the way why have you invented the acronym KSR ? KSA is the conventional one.
Last edited by scot47 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| bazzap1976 wrote: |
| Hmmmm.... pretty desperate! Ha ha! No, not really. Thanks for your information. A friend of mine worked in KSR and told me that on application, nothing more but a scanned copy of his degree was required. Food for thought on my part perhaps. Thanks again. |
Maybe for the application part, which is only the begining of a long arduous process... when you go to get your work visa from the Saudi Embassy you will need provide them official copies of your degrees- notarized, verified, stamped, signed ...along with a whole sh*t load of other documents. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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What about in the case that one's potential employer isn't actually getting 'you' a work visa? Being hired with no degree (or an unverifiable one) sounds dodgier and dodgier....
I can never get it why people want to go into a place like KSA, where repercussions can be pretty severe, on any kind of iffy status to begin with. I mean, it's still possible to go teach in Asia and make decent money with far lesser quals than the ME requires. |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
What about in the case that one's potential employer isn't actually getting 'you' a work visa? Being hired with no degree (or an unverifiable one) sounds dodgier and dodgier....
I can never get it why people want to go into a place like KSA, where repercussions can be pretty severe, on any kind of iffy status to begin with. I mean, it's still possible to go teach in Asia and make decent money with far lesser quals than the ME requires. |
Exactly! I always assume that anyone coming to KSA would do so on a legitimate/proper work visa; any other way is just begging to be used and abused.
dodgey teachers applying to dodgey language centers seems like a perfect match! I wonder about the students though  |
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bazzap1976
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:05 am Post subject: |
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Ha ha! I have no idea why I called it KSR... Kingdom of Saudi 'rabia perhaps? 
Well, this is all good information. However, I am not a "dodgy teacher", but rather a teacher with seven years teaching experience in Vietnam and PRI (Peoples Republic of 'ina). So, someone asked why a teacher would like to go to KSR instead of Asia. Quite simply it is the cost of living. My friend told me that he struggled to spend $300 a month there and managed to save almost all his salary. Whereas here in Beijing it is a struggle to save money and also, if you want to earn good bucks you must travel a lot. Spending three to four hours a day on the subway is not good fun. In short: China drives me mad and there is no end product.
I understand the social restrictions of KSR, but everyone has their reasons for going there. So do you agree with my friends information that a year in Saudi Arabia can keep your bank balance satisfied? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, it's very easy to save a lot of money in Saudi because the tax-free salaries and benefits generally are higher here than in the rest of the world. However, without a college degree, your chances of even getting employment in KSA are nil. Seriously, bazzap1976, if you want to stay in the TEFL field and earn a decent living, you'll need a college degree. That's the reality. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| However, I am not a "dodgy teacher", but rather a teacher with seven years teaching experience in Vietnam and PRI (Peoples Republic of 'ina). |
Bazzap, nothing personal here at all - you may indeed be an entirely successful teacher to date.
But teaching experience in places where qualifications aren't required isn't necessarily regarded highly in many other regions of the world.
Again, I obviously am not in any position to judge you specifically, but without paper qualifications and more directly-related and checkable experience (in this case with other students from the ME), how would any potential employers anywhere know that you are an effective teacher? In other words, how would we know that you've done it well??
I'll also drag up the thouroughly beaten-dead-horse concept again that teaching experience in one region of the world doesn't necessarily translate to others. There are some threads on the topic: most have to do with Asian classrooms vs European ones, but they do point out the limitations of experience only in Asia: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=95456
I work in a country (and have been on hiring committees here) where a degree isn't required by law nor is it a requirement for a legal work permit, though I know only a VERY few people who have ever been hired without one (they usually have extensive corporate experience prior to moving into teaching). But I wouldn't give your CV more than a cursory look because you've taught in a very different context and I wouldn't think that your experience in Vietnam and China would be applicable here.
Long story short: without some serious upgrades to your qualifications, my take is that you're best off exploiting your experience where it has some perceived value: in Asia. |
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bazzap1976
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: |
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I understand your point and I accept the reality of the situation. I think we are going over old ground here now, to be honest.
It is rather perplexing though that a teacher with zero experience would be hired over a teacher with years of experience due to the fact that he has a college degree, which could be in anything and far more often than not is in a field of absolute no relation to teaching English. These are the people that usually refer to myself as being a "dodgy teacher" and "worry what the students are getting". Teachers with years of experience in "Asia", remembering that KSA is also a part of Asia(!), in particularly China, have experience in almost all fields from kindergarten to business English. That experience is usually gained by completely "blagging it" due to the Chinese having absolute blind trust that if you can speak the language then you can teach the language. Perhaps not the best idea in our culture or indeed the culture of KSA, but i wonder how many teachers in KSA can teach any kind of English with very little notice. Does it matter if you have a degree or not if you can pick up a microphone and give a two hour lecture to a hundred businessmen and then travel across a huge city to pick up a class with forty screaming seven year old kids?
However, again I accept the reality of the situation and thank you for the information. It probably isn't necessary to question the integrity of teachers though.
Anyway, it's probably too hot and dusty there. And rather too male orientated for my liking.  |
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bulgogiboy
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| bazzap1976 wrote: |
| Hmmmm.... pretty desperate! Ha ha! No, not really. Thanks for your information. A friend of mine worked in KSR and told me that on application, nothing more but a scanned copy of his degree was required. Food for thought on my part perhaps. Thanks again. |
This was the same in my case. I have two degrees, but was never asked for the originals, and I also never had to get any copies notarised. I went in on a business visa, and after 2 months was sent to another country, to get it changed to a work visa. I suspected several of my colleagues of never having been to university.
I've taught in both China and KSA, and let me say that if China drives you crazy then stay away from Saudi! Saudi is by far the worst teaching experience I've had, from the 6 foreign countries I've lived in. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| KSA - no degree no job - EASY |
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