Job Discussion Forums

[Sinaman]

So I have a residence permit with a working visa, etc, etc, etc.

I am supposed to give 6 months notice at my place of work before I decide to leave (I signed a 5 year contract as I am signed on as a manager of foreign teachers and not as just a teacher).

Anyway, I am a bit hesitant to give this much notice because the usual things can happen if you give this much notice.

Now, I am leaving to establish my own business. I will be a minority partner in a registered business with a local (and yes, I can trust this local). The business is also education related.

What I am asking is this; would I be able to, say, go to HK, cancel my working visa, get a business visa (as a business owner) and then come back to the same province (but not city) that I was working at before? Or could my current place of employment make it awkward for me?

[LanGuTou]

You will have to register the new business first and get the official chops (which you will need to obtain another work permit or FEC). Then you will have to cancel any active RP that is still in your passport. You can then obtain a tourist visa whilst you go through the bureaucratic nightmare of obtaining the work permit (NOTE: neither the local Labor Bureau or SAFEA will handle the WP/FEC application whilst an active RP is in your passport. You have to cancel to start the application process).

To get the work permit, you will have to show documentation related to your new business (including business licence, certificate of approval and certain other government issued paraphernalia). You will have to also write a letter confirming you are an employee or owner of the new business and present a CV in both English and Chinese. You may also be required to undertake a medical again.

If all of that is in place, you will be issued with an Alien Employment Permit which you take to another government department that will issue you with a new 'Z' Visa Invitation Letter. Then you take the AEP and invitation letter for the visa run.

On returning with the 'Z' visa, you apply for the little Work Permit/FEC booklet. This will be needed by the PSB to obtain the RP.

This is where it gets unclear and relates to your question. When I went through the same process, I was asked by the PSB for a letter of release from the university I was working at. I have heard that sometimes business owners can get the RP without any release letter. I had one anyway so it was not a problem to me. You are better off asking this question of your local PSB and not on this forum because there is no definitive answer.

But, to speak frankly, yes there may be a problem if you do not obtain the release letter from your current employer.

You can cancel the RP when the new business is registered (in fact you will have to) then get a Business (F) Visa but earning money in China on such a visa holds its own dangers. As a partner in a registered business, you will hold a more prominent position and questions may be asked of you.

[danasoverseasemail]

[roadwalker]

[choudoufu]

wow! a school with a 'manager of foreign teachers.' sounds like
a big school with lots of pull. wanna bet they have friends in the
permit issuing and enforcement offices?

i imagine your soon-to-be ex-boss will have a great big smiley
when he finds out you're now trying to compete with him, after
you screwed him over by not giving notice.

good lucky.

[GHammer]

Sinaman,

HOW LONG HAVE YOU WORKED FOR THE SCHOOL!? HOW LONG IS LEFT ON YOUR CURRENT CONTRACT!?

LMAO! ... you don't provide nearly enough information here and, so, you invite speculation.

1st of all: great call signing a 5 year contract, especially as a "manager of foreign teachers" and especially if you haven't worked under your present contract for very long! Certainly you must know that job titles are a dime-a-dozen and worth next-to-nothing in China? Due to a lack of details on your part, I have to suspect that you didn't know that fact when you first agreed to the contract.

I realize that's probably all over now, still I question how much you knew going in. I'm guessing not very much; you're don't know much about it now. Apparently, you're simply trying to get out of something you agreed to in the first place, now that something you think is better has come along! You make all foreigners working in China look bad, and I can't help hoping it turns out bad for you due to your obvious hubris and arrogance. You think you've found a "better thing" and now you want out of the contract that got you to where you are in the first place? ... NICE! ... You BIG, TOUGH, established bona-fide businessman, YOU!

IMO, you get exactly what you deserve.

Seriously? ... a 5 year contract in China ... as an apparently first-time foreign TEACHER? Did you do ANY homework or research AT ALL? I'm also a "manager of foreign teachers." I've got my Master's degree in English, I'm credentialed, highly qualified and I've been teaching, training teachers, and tutoring for 15 years ... and it would mean next to NOTHING in comparison to a 5 year contract if the Chinese school you're working for has POWER, INFLUENCE and wants to play HARD BALL with you over that contract! Chances are they'll cut you loose if you fight 'em enough, because they'll know what we know ... you're simply not worth it.

At least, you better hope that's what they think ... or move!

Your "good luck" is that contracts are often not worth the paper they're printed on; they're always subject to "negotiation" and pay-offs, and they often mean "next to nothing." Good news for you is: you can typically get out of almost anything if someone wants you bad enough! Still, it sounds to me like you think you're something special, a "real businessman," and that you want to strike out on your own, or establish a relationship with your "source." Good luck with that; let's hope your "source" has more pull than your school!

The bad luck for you? You're pissing off a school / company that apparently intends to do something about it ... LMAO. Have fun finding out how far they're willing to go!

Honestly, good luck. IMO, you're gonna need it. I have NO IDEA what country you originally come from (I'd guess Australia or America), but chances are 100% you wouldn't try to "do business" in the same way you're currently trying to do business in China.

You reap what you sow.

-- G

[dox]

I would focus on LanGuTou reply, as it actually tries to help you.

[Lobster]

Some posters here really can't control either their bile or speculation.

There was no mention of how long the OP has worked at his current place.

There was no mention of whether this was the OP's first position in China.

The OP clearly stated that the new business will be in a different city, therefore no competition with the current employer.

There is no mention that the current employer plans to take action.

The OP has not decided whether to give the notice required in the contract or not.

The actions of this FT don't make me look bad.

The speculation that the OP is from any particular country is unfounded and indicates bias.

There is no indication of bad faith in the initial signing of the contract. To speculate that the OP intended to breach the contract from the start is unfair and unjustified.

I'm going to make this point again and again. Negotiating out of a contract by following the included termination clauses is not fraud or even unethical. Signing an employment contract does not lock one into the position for the contract's duration. People are free to leave and pursue better opportunities, and in my opinion they are actually obligated to do so. Terminating a contract according to its termination clauses is not a criminal act. Article 37 of the Chinese Labor Law states:

Article 37. A worker may terminate his employment contract upon 30 days� prior written notice to his Employer.

A contract may not trump national law. The notice clause is invalid.

What I see is a load of jealousy directed at someone who hopes to start their own business here instead of going the usual route. They may succeed; they may fail. At least they're willing to try for something bigger and better. The critical posters will always be stuck in their positions as perceived indentured labor with meaningless job titles.

OP, give your current employer adequate notice, discuss it and take it from there.

RED

[Mister Al]

Well said, lobster