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SpanishFly
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 31
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 Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:23 pm Post subject: Those who can do... |
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| What do you all think of the saying " Those who can , do . Those who can't , teach ? " |
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Mouse
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's a very good way of trolling teachers' forums. 
I prefer "Those who can, teach" but there's no prize for guessing why. |
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anthyp
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 1320
Location: Chicago, IL USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Very amusing. And unfortunately it seems accurate regarding the majority of TEFLers I've met. But there are plenty of us (mostly young and idealistic) who still look at this as a way of furthering our dreams, and making a valuable contribution in this life. Hey I have to post this crap here because they would laugh at me back in the China forum. |
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SpanishFly
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I think teaching English is an important profession. What is there weren't any English teachers ? All English speaking countries as a whole would become redundant in the world market . No ? |
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SEndrigo
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 437
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| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Those who can do... |
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| SpanishFly wrote: |
| What do you all think of the saying " Those who can , do . Those who can't , teach ? " |
that might be true for a small percentage of TEFL teachers, but I don't think that's the case for most.
This also depends on location, unfortunately, there seem to be more backpacker "teachers" in Spain than in other countries, such as Saudi Arabia or Japan.
If you want to be a good teacher, you will be....and you'll make a positive influence on people's lives.
Don't listen to people who put down the profession, they're obviously bitter and have misguided values in life. Sure, money's important, but so is being able to get up in the morning and say "I'm going to do something good for society."
This sounds idealistic but I assure you it's not....
best wishes |
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Mouse
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Do we do something good for society, really? I mean, doctors, nurses, aid workers, lawyers, they all change peoples lives for the better (the lawyers comment was a joke)... we just help people learn a language a little more quickly... don't we? (Devil's Advocate here) |
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anthyp
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 1320
Location: Chicago, IL USA
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Mouse wrote: |
| Do we do something good for society, really? I mean, doctors, nurses, aid workers, lawyers, they all change peoples lives for the better (the lawyers comment was a joke)... we just help people learn a language a little more quickly... don't we? (Devil's Advocate here) |
Well, maybe, Mouse. Maybe that's how you feel over there in Spain. But in China I think it's a little different. Our students adore Western culture, strive to learn as much about it as they can, and we give that to them ... not just the language, but a different way of thinking, of feeling, of living. I know it's hopelessly idealistic to expect to make a real difference in your students' lives, but I believe it's possible to do so, if you try, and if they want you to ... maybe that is not so easy to do over there, but here you know what you mean to your students, and how much they have learned from you, not just about the language, because, most often, they tell you. |
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Mouse
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| I was just about to say that I was only playing devil's advocate, anthyp, but actually, I'm not entirely convinced that I was. I've taught Asian students (mostly Chinese, but also Korean, Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese, etc) both in university in the UK and in two different schools in New Zealand, and I'll agree that they certainly shower you with love. I don't know necessarily that their "love of Western culture" is the reason, perhaps in my case I was just a friendly face when they were away from home. I've had wonderful students both here and in Italy, as well... We've had deep philosophical/religious/political discussions, we've had plenty of fun, dare I say we've even improved our language skills... but I would question whether I've had a truly profound effect on their lives (what am I talking about?! Of course I have! ). Couldn't students learn English equally well, and that "different way of thinking, of feeling, of living" by travelling or working in another country. I like my job. I might even be good at my job. But to say that the world needs my job, or that it's somehow important? I'm not quite convinced (but I'm ready to be). |
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lozwich
Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 1536
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Mouse wrote: |
| I like my job. I might even be good at my job. But to say that the world needs my job, or that it's somehow important? |
What's your definition of 'important'?
I think language teaching will always be important. Its been around for centuries, and as long as people want to travel and get to know people from other cultures it will always be necessary. As well as being a language teacher, I am a language learner. While my Spanish teachers have not 'changed my life' they have helped me to get the skills to change it for myself. I love speaking Spanish. Sometimes, I prefer Spanish to English, and I love the way I have changed since I started speaking it on a daily basis. Learning some elements of grammar, different useages (spelling??), etc is difficult for me without a teacher. Yeah, I read books, and am immersed in the culture, but having a teacher, or guide, has really helped my skills improve.
Many moons ago, I taught computer skills to all kinds of people, but the most interesting in terms of how I thought of myself as a teacher were my students who came from disadvantaged backgrounds. These folks were young adults and teenagers who had been in trouble with the police, used drugs, and many were teenage mums. Now, I went into this thinking 'I'm going to empower them to create better lives for themselves', and to a certain extent, I did. But, my teaching style means treating my students with respect, and therefore I didn't feel comfortable carrying them through something that they were better off learning through experience.
So, no, maybe I didn't change their lives, but I think they learned a few things, possibly have a job, or just aren't dead or in prison now, and that, for me, is a job well done. Yeah, sure your students could learn equally well by travelling to other countries. But maybe they don't have the money or freedom to do so. You never know what might happen as a result of your students' attending your classes. When I started learning Spanish, I never would have imagined that I'd be living in a small town in Mexico, and yet, here I am!
What if you think of yourself as a guide, there to help your students learn what they can from your presence in their lives?
I think that's important.
L. |
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anthyp
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 1320
Location: Chicago, IL USA
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Mouse wrote: |
| But to say that the world needs my job, or that it's somehow important? I'm not quite convinced (but I'm ready to be). |
Saying that the world needs language teachers, and that we're important, is saying two completely different things. We exist because we're needed, simply, and when we are no longer needed we'll cease to exist. Do you really think doctors and lawyers are all that important? I mean on the personal level. They help people, yes, but they come and go in and out of a person's life ... how many doctors and lawyers really touch those in their care? I am reminded of the words of William Butler Yeats regarding the relative importance of poets in this world:
"...For to articulate sweet sounds together
Is to work harder than all these, and yet
Be thought an idler by the noisy set
Of bankers, schoolmasters, and clergymen
The martyrs call the world."
As a language teacher, or a teacher in general, you can certainly have just as great an impact on the personal level as any doctor or lawyer. Your students might remember you forever, if you are good enough (and care enough). I don't mean to turn this into Mr. Holland's Opus Deuce but I honestly believe we perform a vital function in this world, and have an immense opportunity to prepare our students for the coming century ... and make a difference in their lives while we're at it. |
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Mouse
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Saying that the world needs language teachers, and that we're important, is saying two completely different things. |
In an attempt to wilfully misinterpret you, can't necessity be construed as rather important?
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| Do you really think doctors and lawyers are all that important? I mean on the personal level. They help people, yes, but they come and go in and out of a person's life ... how many doctors and lawyers really touch those in their care? |
Speaking as a trained lawyer (oh, the shame brought on my family when I became a teacher instead), I don't think they're important at all (hence the explanation that mentioning lawyers was a joke), but medical staff? I think most people would agree that they have a more profound effect upon people around them than teachers do (speaking as someone whose brother recently had major surgery).
The value of teachers, to society, is significant, I grant you... Apart from saving lives, their role in the socialization of the next generation and rapid transmission of key information arguably play an important part in preventing each generation from needing to rediscover the findings of its predecessors. But do you think that language teaching falls within this category?
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What if you think of yourself as a guide, there to help your students learn what they can from your presence in their lives?
I think that's important. |
Actually, lozwich, that sounds important to me, too. Both anthyp and yourself have argued your points eloquently, and just because I'm discussing, doesn't mean that I disagree.
I might argue, however, that such service to society is extremely dependent on the character of the teacher, and that there are many teachers out there doing as much harm to their students as you are doing good. I might further argue, then, that it is not the fact that you are teachers that is enriching the lives of those around you, but that you are good people, and that were you plumbers, chefs or computer technicians, you would have a positive impact on those whose lives you touched. By extension, the role of teacher is unimportant, as it does not oblige a person to perform good deeds (or even do a good job in some circumstances -- listen to some of the Asia forums), whereas working as a medic, or a social worker, or a politician (cough cough), or what-have-you (though maybe one could argue that those professions attract a certain type of person?).
On a tangential note, why did you become a teacher? |
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lozwich
Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 1536
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Mouse wrote: |
| Speaking as a trained lawyer |
Hmmm... Do I still want to talk with you anymore??? 
| Mouse wrote: |
| The value of teachers, to society, is significant, I grant you... Apart from saving lives, their role in the socialization of the next generation and rapid transmission of key information arguably play an important part in preventing each generation from needing to rediscover the findings of its predecessors. But do you think that language teaching falls within this category? |
Yes.
Coming from such a multicultural society like Australia (I know that grammar's all wrong, but I haven't woken up properly yet.. Not so good at English in the mornings! ) I have had friends from all kinds of countries, and being able to speak one language, at varying levels of proficiency, was what made that possible. Don't get me started about what my school was like when lots of traumatised Vietnamese refugees came to live in my town.. When they started to learn English they seemed to relax a bit more into their new surroundings because they could finally communicate.
| Mouse wrote: |
| I might argue, however, that such service to society is extremely dependent on the character of the teacher, and that there are many teachers out there doing as much harm to their students as you are doing good. |
Just as there are many other people in medicine, social work, etc who are not very nice people at all. I (finally) had surgery a couple of years ago for a problem that had been plaguing me for 6 years. The amount of doctors who told me that it was "women's problems" and something I would have to "learn to live with" made me quite upset to say the least, especially when they found (and removed) something quite revolting from inside me. But, every day that I can do things I previously wasn't able to do because of the pain, I thank crikeys for the wonderful doctors who did help me.
| Mouse wrote: |
| On a tangential note, why did you become a teacher? |
I've been a teacher in some way for my whole life. At school, I was a maths whiz, so I helped my friends a lot. I taught my colleagues at university how to do web design because for me it was as easy as breathing. I teach because I love people (most of the time ) and if I can help, I will.
And, in case you hadn't noticed, communication is my thang, man, and teaching computer communications and now language, ties in nicely with the above...
Have a glorious day!
Lozwich. |
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Mouse
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| lozwich wrote: |
| Mouse wrote: |
| Speaking as a trained lawyer |
Hmmm... Do I still want to talk with you anymore??? |
The smart money says no. (A better reply coming later... well... a longer reply, anyway.) |
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Mouse
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually, no longer reply coming. I agree with you. |
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