Job Discussion Forums

tommysand · Joined: 06 Feb 2012 Posts: 34

Hi all,

I know theres a few threads on Angelina's ESL Cafe, but all are locked now so starting a new one. Contrary to what I have read on the above mentioned threads, I have found my recruiter at Angelina's to be helpful and quick to respond.

I have been put in touch with Chongqing University of Arts and Science who have offered me a job. My issues are as follows. They are reluctant to sign a contract before I complete the medical examin in China. I did not have a sykpe/phone interview and the "foreign teacher" whose email I was given had extremely poor English. Also my contact at the school does not have a university domain on their email.

I won't be traveling to China without a signed contract, but am a bit wary of the rest of it. If they were attempting to scam me I would have thought they would have done so using one of the more prominent universities I applied to, but I'm not sure at this stage.

Any thoughts? Cheers.

Opiate · Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 630 Location: Qingdao

Well, not sure this will be helpful but a signed contract (while outside the country) or not....it has the same meaning. It has exactly zero meaning unless you are prepared and willing to walk away if they change it. It is however a small sign of 'good faith'.

The only contract with any meaning is the (stamped and numbered) SAFEA contract with an addendum that fills in the details. You will not likely be given this via email.

Your entire post is full of red flags to me but that does not necessarily mean they are being dishonest or attempting to cheat you. But...this is not the stage where you would be scammed. The scam (if there is one) comes when you arrive and they change contracts.

Personally, I'd walk away. If you are feeling uncomfortable enough about this to post here I'd have to guess your gut tells you something is wrong. Go with your gut. My gut agrees.

I can see no logical reason why a school would be reluctant to sign a contract prior to the medical exam in China. However, it sure seems like a decent ploy aimed at getting your ass in country without even a preliminary contract. In essence, you'd be coming in blind.

Contact the Universities directly.

xiguagua · Joined: 09 Oct 2011 Posts: 768

I will say though that I've known a lot of FAO's that do not use a university domain. So I don't think that is particularly a red flag. But I agree with Opiate, if you have a lot of uneasiness and they're unwilling to answer your questions, or if they answers are suspicious or indirect then look for another place.

danasoverseasemail · Joined: 08 Jan 2012 Posts: 86

Why should they sign a contract, commit to you, proceed with additional steps of legal employment if you are not medically cleared to obtain work and living credentials?

Few universities provide actual university domain e-mail address for employees.

choudoufu · Joined: 25 May 2010 Posts: 3325 Location: Mao-berry, PRC

choudoufu · Joined: 25 May 2010 Posts: 3325 Location: Mao-berry, PRC

the lowlander · Joined: 10 Oct 2010 Posts: 171 Location: The Oort Cloud

I tried them in the past, got the "old bait and switch" then total silence when I knocked back the switch and asked for something else.

There are several websites out there, where prospective teachers can find their own jobs without any need to use a recruiter.

So here is my advice.

Put some serious "web time" in on your own behalf. Find a school you like. Approach them directly on your own behalf. Sign the contract, and go.

Forget Angelina, and particularly forget PELCC (Fenny) in Shenzhen.

As for medicals, I spent several years in China, and all of the employers I worked for signed the contract first, and worried about the medical later.

If you don't like the feel of what you're being offered, simply walk away.

There are tens of thousands of other vacancies in China that you can easily find for yourself with a bit of time spent on Google.

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

the lowlander · Joined: 10 Oct 2010 Posts: 171 Location: The Oort Cloud

In truth, you don't need to get a medical in your home country before you arrive in China.

Most definitely, you will get one very soon after you arrive, courtesy of your new employers, but it's not normally an issue before you go.

Many employers are happy for you to enter the country on a tourist visa, which they can then easily transfer to a proper working/resident visa if they are a legitimate employer.

Medicals, etc are then done at that point.

It's no big deal, and if any potential employer says that it is, then look elsewhere.

wangdaning · Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 3154

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

My feeling is that the collective wisdom on Dave's re entering China on a tourist visa and converting later is 'don't do it'.
If the OP has a job offer then there is no need (other things being equal) to chance the tourist route.
I have a bad feeling about this one.
If your credentials are anyway decent why take the risk? Particularly at this stage in the recruitment cycle when we are entering the main hiring season for Sept start.

roadwalker · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: Ch

I agree, don't come without a z-visa. The university probably has had trouble with foreigners before, and/or lacks the ability to smoothly negotiate the paperwork involved in bringing a foreign expert to teach. At any rate, they are being unreasonable with you.

And as far as medicals in your home country, you may have to or you may not. Twice I was required to (in the US), including the most recent. If you come on a tourist visa or a business visa, then you wouldn't be required to get a medical exam in your country. On the other hand YOU are assuming all of the risks involved and the school that promised to hire you, assuming you passed the medical exam, assumes zero risk. In fact they can decide they don't like your face and tell you to go away. So now you are in China with no job. Welcome!

peewee1979 · Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:06 am Post subject:

If I am not mistaken to get a z visa in your home country you need to get a medical at home. Be prepared to foot a huge bill for this. A Brit friend told me she had to pay about $500 usd for a medical in the UK and when she got to China they didn't accept it and she had to get a Chinese medical.

And even though the school agreed to foot the bill for her UK medical they never did.

And no surprise she quit the school after less than 2 months over this.

wangdaning · Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 3154

The requirement for the home medical seems to be provincial. Some places require it to get the invitation letter. To confuse it more, some consulates require it. I came on a tourist visa, it was horrible. No medicals though, just months of being unemployed in a foreign country. If they wont get you the right visa from the get go, it should tell you something.

Guerciotti · Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:54 am Post subject:

Tommy, did they refuse to get you a Z visa? I did not see it in your post.
I was required to get a medical checkup before they signed a contract and sent me an invitation letter which I took to the embassy to get a Z visa. Then I flew to China.

The process varies depending on the province and if you apply to a university or an English school.

Of course as soon as I arrived they took me to a hospital for blood tests and x-rays regardless of my home checkup.

Oh and I'm also in the process of finding a job. I looked at the emails for the universities (not recruiters) I'm in contact with and only one has a school email domain. The rest are 163, hotmail, or gmail accounts.

Just my 2 cents. Maybe nothing to worry about?

Cool