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boomerexpat
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
Posts: 135
Location: Mexico
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 Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:08 am Post subject: Age and teaching in Mexico City |
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Me: 58, MBA, newly awarded TEFL, long-time exec in Silicon Valley with 16 years of exp coaching execs and training teams on sales, communication, marketing, research, etc. Been at big companies like Apple but for last 12 years a serial entrepreneur and management consultant.
I'm over in Thailand now and while Asians revere age they want it to know its place - playing with the grand kids not mucking about in the business world.
I can get teaching jobs here in Asia but so far it seems as though they are the less desirable ones due to city, neighborhood, or school. In Asia, when they have a choice (e.g., hot locations like Bangkok or Shanghai) they want young. Even the top unis will often list 40 as the upper age for a PhD hire.
I'm giving it another month but then will consider moving to grayer (accepting) pastures. Which brings me to Mexico City.
Many have suggested that there is less age discrimination in Mexico.
1. Is that really true is it more of a case where they should want you but they don't want you and will only take you if there are no other options?
2. I've read in another thread that 59 seems to be the cutoff for gov colleges. Is this widespread?
3. How about private colleges?
4. Do biz people prefer younger people teaching them and their employees? That is the case apparently in Thailand.
5. Any thoughts on how to use age as an advantage in DF?
Thanks |
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Tretyakovskii
Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 462
Location: Cancun, Mexico
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I've read in another thread that 59 seems to be the cutoff for gov colleges. |
See the thread, "Truth", second to last post, at this moment. I work for a government university.
I think everyone recognizes that, at a certain age, which may differ from one person to another, we will become less employable. I think it's important not to focus on that, but on the positives we can bring to the workplace, regardless of age.
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| Me: 58, MBA, newly awarded TEFL, long-time exec in Silicon Valley with 16 years of exp coaching execs and training teams on sales, communication, marketing, research, etc. Been at big companies like Apple but for last 12 years a serial entrepreneur and management consultant. |
See what I mean? Your training experience, and other of your life experiences could make you an ideal candidate, in many people's minds.
It will be up to you to cultivate your opportunities, and let good fortune fill in the rest. |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Me: 58, MBA, newly awarded TEFL, long-time exec in Silicon Valley with 16 years of exp coaching execs and training teams on sales, communication, marketing, research, etc. Been at big companies like Apple but for last 12 years a serial entrepreneur and management consultant. |
If you have had that type of serious business and entrepreneurial success, I imagine that you're coming to Mexico to teach English for the experience itself and you just want to be able to make ends meet in a job while you're here.
Truth be told, your work experience will not be valued here nearly as much as in the US, even with job opportunities scarce there. Mexico is a sort of no-man's land, where people without much to offer are able to move in and make a name for their business. This is especially true in private education across the board, which has skyrocketed here in the last decade.
I think your best shot will be finding work at a university, private or public if possible. While Business English classes might be a good alternative, it won't always be steady work and a steady salary. On top of that, in many cases you won't get paid vacation (but you probably will be able to take off a week or two when you'd like without pay). International House in Mexico City might be a good fit for you as well. I've heard positive things for the most part about them in comparison to most, but be prepared for lots of subway and bus rides.
As I said, though, you're entering not only into a different country but a different world when it comes to teaching English. Don't be surprised that with all your experience in Silicon Valley, you'll be teaching Business English in companies side by side with backpacking kids.[/quote] |
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EFLeducator
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Age and teaching in Mexico City |
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| boomerexpat wrote: |
| Me: 58, MBA, newly awarded TEFL, long-time exec in Silicon Valley with 16 years of exp coaching execs and training teams on sales, communication, marketing, research, etc. Been at big companies like Apple but for last 12 years a serial entrepreneur and management consultant. |
So, WHY do you want to get into TEFLing?????
| boomerexpat wrote: |
| Many have suggested that there is less age discrimination in Mexico. |
While there MAY be some exceptions too the rule, age discrimination is alive and well in Mexico City. PM me if you'd like details. |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| If you have had that type of serious business and entrepreneurial success, I imagine that you're coming to Mexico to teach English for the experience itself and you just want to be able to make ends meet in a job while you're here. |
Makes me think the OP would have a lot more success working on his own in running sales/marketing courses rather than straight EFL. Or a combination of both. I've seen it done well by a couple of people but it takes a lot of networking time to pay out. I'm assuming there's a desire here for a good income and not just something to do to pass the time.
| Quote: |
| While there MAY be some exceptions too (?) the rule, age discrimination is alive and well in Mexico City. |
It lurks around every corner, ready to POUNCE! Be careful, or you'll be NEXT... |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Makes me think the OP would have a lot more success working on his own in running sales/marketing courses rather than straight EFL. Or a combination of both. I've seen it done well by a couple of people but it takes a lot of networking time to pay out. I'm assuming there's a desire here for a good income and not just something to do to pass the time. |
Easier said than done. Arriving to a foreign country, not being able to speak the language (I think), not having any contacts, and trying to open a sort of consulting business all on your own...
It's like saying that my well-educated, intelligent, thoughtful, decisive, ethical neighbor would make a great president! |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Very true...the only times I've seen it done were with people well established in Mexico City. A longer-term project to be sure. |
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boomerexpat
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
Posts: 135
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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[/quote]
Easier said than done. Arriving to a foreign country, not being able to speak the language (I think), not having any contacts, and trying to open a sort of consulting business all on your own...[/quote]
Agree. It is hard enough to do that type of networking where you speak the language and have roots.
It seems like I might be getting into a catch 22 in DF.
Either - Better fit for biz English or teaching marketing but don't have the connections or lang skills to do that for quite a while at any sales vol.
Or, better fit for uni but too old and don't have teaching exp.
I want to be able to generate rev enough to live off of modestly (at least 10K month) within 4 months of arriving.
Humm....maybe I'll just try out for the NBA. |
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EFLeducator
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| mejms wrote: |
| Arriving to a foreign country, not being able to speak the language |
What a message. I knew a guy who had lived in MANY countries and they ALL spoke English and wanted to speak and practice their English. Then he went to Mexico City.
He couldn't believe that so few were able to speak in English. I explained it to him on why so many in el DF cannot speak English. He shook his head in disbelief. He left in a matter of weeks.
The OP will need to find the really educated people in Mexico City because they usually speak some English.
Unbelievable. |
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EFLeducator
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| boomerexpat wrote: |
| I want to be able to generate rev enough to live off of modestly (at least 10K month) within 4 months of arriving. |
That won't be easy to do in Mexico City. As was mentioned earlier, you will need to speak Spanish because the English speaking skills in Mexico City are poor to say the least. I know, I lived and taught there for many years.
Here's something else to think about. You'll need a nice chunck of savings because a lot of places won't pay you on time and sometime they won't even pay you the full amount that they owe you.
I experienced both of these situations the many years I was teaching in Mexico City. And you're not supposed to get upset when this happens.
Have that savings to get established and to pay rent and food for those times when you won't get paid on time and also have enough to get back to your home country.
FAIR...& BALANCED. |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Agree. It is hard enough to do that type of networking where you speak the language and have roots.
It seems like I might be getting into a catch 22 in DF.
Either - Better fit for biz English or teaching marketing but don't have the connections or lang skills to do that for quite a while at any sales vol.
Or, better fit for uni but too old and don't have teaching exp.
I want to be able to generate rev enough to live off of modestly (at least 10K month) within 4 months of arriving.
Humm....maybe I'll just try out for the NBA. |
Although I want to be realistic in my assessment, I'd also encourage you to go for it. Come to Mexico (Mexico City is a good place to start). Who wants to live a life of what-ifs? But understand that you're crossing into a field and country where work experience is viewed differently. I get the impression that you're looking more for fun, adventure, and experience while living comfortably. You can find a job for $10,000 per month. That's not unreasonable and there are many opportunities out there.
Visit this page: http://www.ihmexico.com/main/. Familiarize yourself with the company and try to make contact with them in Mexico City. You should be able to make $8,000 by visiting companies to teach English. They'll likely pair you with execs who will appreciate your background and treat you like a colleague. Develop your rapport with them. It should be fascinating to meet other businessmen who have been through it all in another country and culture.
At some point, once you feel confident and know people, you'll be able to go independent. You'll have more control over your schedule, your salary, and your commute throughout the day. In other words, you'll get comfortable.
If you can manage traveling quite a bit throughout the day (you'll get to see a lot of the city at least), what I describe will be the quickest, easiest, and smoothest way to get your foot in the door and get started. You can always continue looking and interviewing for university jobs once you're here and working, but that can be a longer process. The two possible profiles for you in particular are (1) experienced English-speaking business consultant or (2) mature university professor. That's the impression you want to give off and the reputation you'll want to build. Don't talk up your age. Talk up your years of business experience and desire to share it all as an English teacher. That's a good sell.
I understand your apprehension, but you'll need to just delve it at some point. Many things just can't be done from afar, and that's especially true in Mexico, a very hands-on, in-person culture.
I wish you the best of luck. Let us know how it goes! |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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That won't be easy to do in Mexico City. As was mentioned earlier, you will need to speak Spanish because the English speaking skills in Mexico City are poor to say the least. I know, I lived and taught there for many years.
Here's something else to think about. You'll need a nice chunck of savings because a lot of places won't pay you on time and sometime they won't even pay you the full amount that they owe you.
I experienced both of these situations the many years I was teaching in Mexico City. And you're not supposed to get upset when this happens.
Have that savings to get established and to pay rent and food for those times when you won't get paid on time and also have enough to get back to your home country.
FAIR...& BALANCED. |
That's overly pessimistic. There are lots of sham operations out there to be sure, but there are also legitimate people to work for. You won't need Spanish to get a job. You would need Spanish to start a business. $10,000 is a realistic goal to have. You might be a couple thousand short of that to start, but you'll be able to get there after 6 months. When you're in a different country, you always need to be smart and protect yourself. You have to be a good judge of character. If you get taken in by people easily, you can and will get ripped off. |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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10k per month within 6 months is very reasonable and a realistic goal to have....within 3 months is just as reasonable here, working for others. Advancing past that is what's key.
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| You have to be a good judge of character. |
That, among other qualities is important, perhaps even more than simply acquiring Spanish. Nothing is going to come automatically, and this culture in Mexico demands you adjust. You have to pick the right path.
I know of a guy that worked 14 years on and off in DF trying to make a go of it on an associate's degree. He never quite figured it out and only learned the worst lessons you could from Mexico, trying to pass himself off as something better than he was. That's just the kind of wrong direction that leads to the wrong jobs, the wrong people, and the wrong way of doing things.
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| At some point, once you feel confident and know people, you'll be able to go independent. You'll have more control over your schedule, your salary, and your commute throughout the day. In other words, you'll get comfortable. |
Good post, mejms. Very good advice to follow. |
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EFLeducator
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| mejms wrote: |
| That's overly pessimistic. |
Not at all my fellow TEFLer. I'm a realist. I'm just pointing out FACTS about TEFLing in Mexico City. Nothing more nothing less. 
| mejms wrote: |
| There are lots of sham operations out there to be sure. |
You got that right!! |
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Enchilada Potosina
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 344
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| mejms wrote: |
| $10,000 is a realistic goal to have. You might be a couple thousand short of that to start, but you'll be able to get there after 6 months. When you're in a different country, you always need to be smart and protect yourself. You have to be a good judge of character. If you get taken in by people easily, you can and will get ripped off. |
It seems a relatively low salary to me, for Mexico City, especially given that you're working your way up to this figure. For example, no language school in SLP will pay you anywhere near that wage unless you like teaching 10-12 hours a day, yet the cost of living here is not that much lower.
As Guy says, working for yourself is the only way especially when you realise that most teachers are crap and find yourself in the minority of good ones. The anglo mentality of finding a better job or career advancement (at the same institution) doesn't really apply here as there's very little job security. This is largely due to the evil 'honorarios asimilables' regime which means it's legal for your employer to retain taxes and give you absolutely no benefits. You're basically a glorified supplier paid cash in hand that can be done away with from one day to the next so don't worry about being loyal... |
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