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tideout
Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 213
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 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:39 am Post subject: Mexican immigration trends and impact on ESL in Mexico |
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I'm sure many of you have run across the latest Pew Hispanic Research study on Mexican immigration trends with the US.
There are a multitude of factors mentioned and in one interview I saw on the web it was made clear that the data doesn't necessarily make everything clear. It also seems clear that no one's can neatly summarize the largest immigration pattern in the world. Pretty amazing - no other country has more immigrants from any other country in the world. I think the stat I read was 1 in 10 Mexicans lives in the US?
Factors in the steep decline, even a net loss of those emigrating to the US seem to range from a weak US economy, increased racism in some states, increased violence in border states and more. Another article mentioned an improved economy in parts of Mexico as an additional factor. I'm sure most of this is familiar territory to those on the board here.
My question though is what the trend might mean for the ESL industry in Mexico? Is there a possible drop off in interest in studying English with a US economy that's in neutral?
Early signals seem to indicate the US Supremes appear to be warm enough to the Arizona state laws on dealing with illegal aliens. There's already a disturbing article or two on a number of other states in the US who appear very friendly to the approach that AZ. has taken but are just waiting for a decision by the court.
I could see some positives - if the Mex. economy improves, maybe more will be the mode for continued education etc...
How will all of this effect the desirability of studying English in Mexico (or other Latin American countries for that matter?)?
Just curious as to what others think. |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:04 am Post subject: |
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Mexicans were never studying English because they wanted to go pick onions in Texas or wash dishes in a New Jersey pizza parlour. They've never needed English for that. Mexicans study English to work in the tourism industry, or to move up in their jobs at Proctor and Gamble. Mexicans who study English know that it's not just Americans who speak it. They also speak it to their German managers at the Volkswagon plant. And of course the latest academic research and industrial equipment manuals are all in English.
Over the past 15 years more and more universities have made English courses a requirement in all degrees.
As more of the young adults opt to go to college instead of going to the US. There will be in increase in demand for teachers qualified to teach those classes.
This can only mean the market will get better. Especially for those with academic qualifications. |
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tideout
Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| MotherF wrote: |
Mexicans were never studying English because they wanted to go pick onions in Texas or wash dishes in a New Jersey pizza parlour. They've never needed English for that. Mexicans study English to work in the tourism industry, or to move up in their jobs at Proctor and Gamble. Mexicans who study English know that it's not just Americans who speak it. They also speak it to their German managers at the Volkswagon plant. And of course the latest academic research and industrial equipment manuals are all in English.
Over the past 15 years more and more universities have made English courses a requirement in all degrees.
As more of the young adults opt to go to college instead of going to the US. There will be in increase in demand for teachers qualified to teach those classes.
This can only mean the market will get better. Especially for those with academic qualifications. |
You may very well be right - I certainly don't disagree with some of your reasoning in that the lower skilled trades might not have been headed to English lessons. I can't help but wonder if their kids would have a different perspective on the importance of English though?
I can think of least several cases in the school I worked in Mexico that don't neatly fit your description. One guy was a college graduate who'd worked illegally in Seattle but wanted to study/improve his English. Another woman who had relatives living in the US who felt like she could spend time in the States and at least one of the Mexican teachers in the school who'd lived and worked a bit illegally in NJ as a teen. In other words, these were all educated folks who could conceivably see work opportunities or connections diminish in a country that seems prone to arresting them w/o cause.
In any case, thanks for your thoughts on it - reasonable points. |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
You may very well be right - I certainly don't disagree with some of your reasoning in that the lower skilled trades might not have been headed to English lessons. I can't help but wonder if their kids would have a different perspective on the importance of English though?
I can think of least several cases in the school I worked in Mexico that don't neatly fit your description. One guy was a college graduate who'd worked illegally in Seattle but wanted to study/improve his English. Another woman who had relatives living in the US who felt like she could spend time in the States and at least one of the Mexican teachers in the school who'd lived and worked a bit illegally in NJ as a teen. In other words, these were all educated folks who could conceivably see work opportunities or connections diminish in a country that seems prone to arresting them w/o cause.
In any case, thanks for your thoughts on it - reasonable points. |
Just my experience: I�ve had hundreds of students in Mexico over the years, most of whom have been adults in companies, and every single one of them fit MotherF�s description. |
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tideout
Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| mejms wrote: |
| Quote: |
You may very well be right - I certainly don't disagree with some of your reasoning in that the lower skilled trades might not have been headed to English lessons. I can't help but wonder if their kids would have a different perspective on the importance of English though?
I can think of least several cases in the school I worked in Mexico that don't neatly fit your description. One guy was a college graduate who'd worked illegally in Seattle but wanted to study/improve his English. Another woman who had relatives living in the US who felt like she could spend time in the States and at least one of the Mexican teachers in the school who'd lived and worked a bit illegally in NJ as a teen. In other words, these were all educated folks who could conceivably see work opportunities or connections diminish in a country that seems prone to arresting them w/o cause.
In any case, thanks for your thoughts on it - reasonable points. |
Just my experience: I�ve had hundreds of students in Mexico over the years, most of whom have been adults in companies, and every single one of them fit MotherF�s description. |
Thanks for posting - interesting to hear your experience and you've had many more students than I have in Mx.
An "argument" I'm happy to lose by the way!  |
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disraeli123
Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:14 am Post subject: Esl and immigration another angle........................... |
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Their is another side to this issue. I have taught English in several Latin countries including Colombia and the DR. My friends in the U.S. mostly other ESL/EFL teachers are finding it increasingly harder to find jobs in the U.S. and they are asking about the job market down here in Mexico and Latin America as a whole. I know ESL/EFL pays more in other parts of the world, but a lot of teachers I know are looking southward as the U.S. economy and ESL/EFL job market continues to flounder  These people could change the job market, if they came in enough numbers just putting this topic out for discussion!! |
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tideout
Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:21 am Post subject: Re: Esl and immigration another angle....................... |
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| disraeli123 wrote: |
| Their is another side to this issue. I have taught English in several Latin countries including Colombia and the DR. My friends in the U.S. mostly other ESL/EFL teachers are finding it increasingly harder to find jobs in the U.S. and they are asking about the job market down here in Mexico and Latin America as a whole. I know ESL/EFL pays more in other parts of the world, but a lot of teachers I know are looking southward as the U.S. economy and ESL/EFL job market continues to flounder These people could change the job market, if they came in enough numbers just putting this topic out for discussion!! |
The proximity of Mexico to the US could be a factor (maybe already has been) in the saturating of the job market. Hard to measure though I suspect there are quite a few who'd find some of Latin America a bit rough and the pay low to venture into. Still, it could have a negative effect on wages.
On a related note - I recently saw an article on the growth or decline of the middle class in Canada, US and Mex.. Mexico's middle class is expanding while the middle class in Canada and the US is declining.
Maybe I can find some private students if I stand outside one of the Home Depots down there?  |
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disraeli123
Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:59 am Post subject: Home Depot why not??? |
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The Home Depot here in San Luis Potosi is always filled with middle class shoppers, so it maybe worth a try 
My friends in the U.S. are looking south, because something is better than nouthing. In the U.S. right now the average ESL/EFL teacher who has a job(most do not) are working part time some times working at 2 to 3 different schools just to get a 30 hour pay check. At least down here there is still work and, if you have the credentials you can still make$1,000 U.S. or more. |
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tideout
Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:18 am Post subject: Re: Home Depot why not??? |
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| disraeli123 wrote: |
The Home Depot here in San Luis Potosi is always filled with middle class shoppers, so it maybe worth a try
My friends in the U.S. are looking south, because something is better than nouthing. In the U.S. right now the average ESL/EFL teacher who has a job(most do not) are working part time some times working at 2 to 3 different schools just to get a 30 hour pay check. At least down here there is still work and, if you have the credentials you can still make$1,000 U.S. or more. |
Only know a couple of people teaching ESL semi-FT in the States. They were saying that everyone in academia outside of the rare tenure track position is just piecing together classes to get by.
I'm not from California but there was a big article yesterday in the NY Times on the troubled State education system there. Quite discouraging to see what was something of a flagship for a state education system with so many problems. |
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disraeli123
Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:32 am Post subject: Re: Home Depot why not??? |
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| tideout wrote: |
| disraeli123 wrote: |
The Home Depot here in San Luis Potosi is always filled with middle class shoppers, so it maybe worth a try
My friends in the U.S. are looking south, because something is better than nouthing. In the U.S. right now the average ESL/EFL teacher who has a job(most do not) are working part time some times working at 2 to 3 different schools just to get a 30 hour pay check. At least down here there is still work and, if you have the credentials you can still make$1,000 U.S. or more. |
Only know a couple of people teaching ESL semi-FT in the States. They were saying that everyone in academia outside of the rare tenure track position is just piecing together classes to get by.
I'm not from California but there was a big article yesterday in the NY Times on the troubled State education system there. Quite discouraging to see what was something of a flagship for a state education system with so many problems. |
Tideout the States will remain in trouble probably for a few more years yet. There is no more money to pay for everything so many people are out of work. That is why my friends are looking southward. |
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tideout
Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:42 am Post subject: Re: Home Depot why not??? |
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| disraeli123 wrote: |
| tideout wrote: |
| disraeli123 wrote: |
The Home Depot here in San Luis Potosi is always filled with middle class shoppers, so it maybe worth a try
My friends in the U.S. are looking south, because something is better than nouthing. In the U.S. right now the average ESL/EFL teacher who has a job(most do not) are working part time some times working at 2 to 3 different schools just to get a 30 hour pay check. At least down here there is still work and, if you have the credentials you can still make$1,000 U.S. or more. |
Only know a couple of people teaching ESL semi-FT in the States. They were saying that everyone in academia outside of the rare tenure track position is just piecing together classes to get by.
I'm not from California but there was a big article yesterday in the NY Times on the troubled State education system there. Quite discouraging to see what was something of a flagship for a state education system with so many problems. |
Tideout the States will remain in trouble probably for a few more years yet. There is no more money to pay for everything so many people are out of work. That is why my friends are looking southward. |
No doubt I'm afraid, no doubt. |
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disraeli123
Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:25 pm Post subject: I hope my friends find something............................ |
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I hope my friends and other people who are looking for jobs can find them wherever the jobs might be.  Unlike me most of my friends want to stay where they are. I have worked in Lain America, before and actually not being able to find a job back there spured me to come back to Latin America where I have had a lot of good years.  I will say this immigration, might at least in a modest way be going south instead of north, because of these economic troubles.
I have 2 friends coming down next month who are going to be looking for work and they are not looking to go back any time soon. They are really disgusted over the job situation back in the states. They both are going to be interviewing in person at my school, if they get the jobs then we will move into a house together to save on rent. The rent for a 3 bedroom house is only 5,500 pesos in my neighborhood and it would include water and electricity. My rent would drop from2,500 pesos a month to 1,833.00 pesos a month or 128.00 dollars a month instea of the 174.00 I'm paying now. I do not see myself going back to the states at least not in the foreseeable future 3 to 4 years at minimal or more. The politicians have really screwed things up back north. |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: I hope my friends find something........................ |
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| disraeli123 wrote: |
| The rent for a 3 bedroom house is only 5,500 pesos in my neighborhood and it would include water and electricity. My rent would drop from2,500 pesos a month to 1,833.00 pesos a month or 128.00 dollars a month instea of the 174.00 I'm paying now. |
The cost of living around the country varies a lot. My next door neighbour rents out her 3 bedroom house for 1000 a month. Water and electricity are not included, but aren't much. |
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disraeli123
Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: Thank You Mother F. for the cost of livingin your area...... |
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| I have several friends who are interested in coming down to teach and they may want to teach in other areas besides San Luis. |
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Samantha
Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2038
Location: Mexican Riviera
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:05 am Post subject: |
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disraeli123 wrote:
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| At least down here there is still work and, if you have the credentials you can still make$1,000 U.S. or more. |
Trained and experienced teachers, who have earned appropriate degrees, land the good jobs and make a fair bit more money than the equivalent of $1000 USD. That said, different areas of the country have different job opportunities. There are areas where someone with only a short ESL course will be unable to find work at all, other than perhaps private lessons. |
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