Job Discussion Forums

[HystericalHoosier]

We recently had mid terms at King Saud University. We were given a written policy that said students had to be caught cheating on the test three times before they could be removed from the test. Is this standard operating procedure in KSA?

[ultraman111]

They all cheat....its very common and how they grow up...its inherrent in their make up imo.

[veiledsentiments]

That is first time that I have heard of this "3" number.

Ridiculous. You either ban cheating or you don't...

VS

[spiral78]

It's a collectivist culture. Of course collaboration is considered normal, and maybe even obligatory in some respects. Difficult to train that out, when it's so deeply ingrained by society.

The Saudis I work with have very strong feelings of obligation to 'help' each other. It's a bit easier to deal with as 'ours' are outside of the kingdom, and we can present the concept as 'Western' stuff to which they must learn to adapt because they live here for now and want a degree from this Western university.

I wouldn't want to try to tackle it inside KSA. I guess the most apt idea might well be something along the lines of 'grin and bear it.'

[posh]

It's haram, apparently. But what ain't?

[johnslat]

Cheating is haram, but helping one's friends is a religious obligation. Students are, therefore, put upon the horns of a moral/ethical dilemma.
Three guesses as to which horn many of them choose.

At first, I used to try to explain why cheating (i.e. "helping one's friend") isn't really helping him at all, how it's, in fact, hurting him. But alas, logic had little, if any, impact.

After that, I just gave zeroes to cheaters and cheatees, which had a far greater impact than logic.

Regards,
John

[Bill Frawley]

Xxxxxxxx

[johnslat]

Dear Bill Frawley,

It mattered to me. I can't ever control what the big-shots anywhere do once I turn in my grades, but, by God, I can and will control what goes on in my classroom.

Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

My experience matched John's. I regularly failed the cheaters and my employers always backed me up. If I saw them, they were toast. There are places who attempt to uphold standards. Students were often (usually?) moved up to the next levels faster that I might have preferred, but management made the decisions of what scores were required to move up. Teachers did get some input, but less that we wanted.

I realize that not all employers do this - and Saudi seems to enforce this less than the rest of the Gulf universities. But I have to say that if my managements wouldn't have backed me up, I would not have bothered. Their ball... their court...

VS

[rainbowprof]

I find setting up the examination environment to reduce the chances of cheating is helpful in a classroom. I try to give exams where students are not directly next to another student, all talking is forbidden and mobiles/ cell phones must be turned off and placed on their desk. If the exams have an oral component, especially if one- on -one (even if only for a minute or two), chances of cheating are almost nullified. We just had mid-term exams, too.

I can't imagine giving students the chance to cheat three times in a row. Don't you move their seat, or take away their cheat notes or take away their exam. 3 times? I suppose if they copy 3 words that's cheating three times
You might as well tell them that there is no assessment- if you come to class enough times, you will automatically progress to the next level. That's a possible solution. The teacher won't feel so stressed if they know that from the outset.

[johnslat]

Thanks to computers, I used to make four separate copies of an exam, with the questions all mixed up.

It worked quite well, especially after the first few people who cheated got either zeros or not much more.

Regards,
John

[rainbowprof]

[quote="johnslat"]Thanks to computers, I used to make four separate copies of an exam, with the questions all mixed up.

exactly, there are always ways and means.

[casio]

Some institutions require the teacher to take the paper away from the offender at the time of being spotted for cheating. A lot of teachers are reluctant to do this without giving an initial warning or moving the student to another seat. Unless a student is caught with a crib note or any such 'smoking gun' proof he/she will not admit to any wrongdoing.

Very often in the case of a student being penalized for talking to another student or looking at other paper, it ends up being the teacher's word against the student's. You might win the battle but in a region where being liked has a lot to do with getting lazy students to work, you could be making a rod for your own back.

Prevention is better than cure: split them up and sit them next to people taking different tests and sweep the place of mobiles and crib sheets before the exam. Just think inshallah and hope for the best.

[rainbowprof]

[blu141]