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Nim Chimsky
Joined: 28 Apr 2012
Posts: 46
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 Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:04 am Post subject: Is it Nam or Viet Nam |
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Hi Teachers
I didn't want to hijack another post so I have decided to start another thread.
I thought it may lead to a discussion about the Vietnamese culture. A topic which has not been discussed much on this site.
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I have said it before and I will say it again, it is offensive to many Viets to call their country "Nam"'. One simply needs to examine the linguistic root of this word to the historical era.
One poster from the past said that he reserved the right to call Viet Nam as he wished. This statement shows true arrogance and disrespect to Viets. I hope people can be respectful even if they feel or have differing opinions. |
Are we disrespecting the Northern Vietnamese, women in Vietnam, the Chinese or possibly the Khmers?
Best regards
Nim Chimsky |
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The Mad Hatter
Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:51 am Post subject: |
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It's Vietnam.
The word Nam was created during the American war.
It is ill-conceived, thoughtless obsolete and archaic to use it currently.
No Brit refers to a German as 'the Hun' anymore.
Why can't some Americans just get over themselves? |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| The Mad Hatter wrote: |
Why can't some Americans just get over themselves? |
What does this have to do with Americans being full of themselves? Don't be ridiculous. It makes you sound full of yourself.
It's more likely it's simple ignorance. |
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Nim Chimsky
Joined: 28 Apr 2012
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Teachers
It's not black or white as some may think.
Are you an American or a Yank? Is it Yankee go home as they say in Latin America. Are you from The United States of America, The States or America-ask a South American etc. 
Best regards
Nim Chimsky |
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skarper
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Vietnam or Viet Nam.
'Yank' is not a compliment and neither is 'Yankee'.
Every choice we make in word use carries connotations. |
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TRH
Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 340
Location: Hawaii
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:49 am Post subject: Original Yankees |
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| skarper wrote: |
Vietnam or Viet Nam.
'Yank' is not a compliment and neither is 'Yankee'.
Every choice we make in word use carries connotations. |
When I grew up in New England, there were people, mostly in rural areas, who proudly called themselves "Yankees" meaning that they were descended from pre-revolutionary colonists. This was in Red Sox country but everyone knew what they meant. For most of the world, though I guess Yankee is perceived of as a negative due to the perception of economic colonialism.
I have heard Vietnamese use the term Viet in reference to themselves. I think the term for the ethnic group is properly người Việt. The term Nam in Viet Nam means South so to refer to the country as Nam would make no sense in the language. It would be like calling South Carolina just South. I have never heard a Vietnamese, in Vietnam or the US, use the term Nam. |
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mark_in_saigon
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:34 am Post subject: it is not an important issue here |
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| It has been discussed in the past, and there is not a lot that can be added to it. If this is the kind of thing that you find interesting, the answers are already there for you, just do a search, you will see where the discussion leads. The natives do not know or care what we are saying in this regard. You may find that this is the kind of topic that is used to boil the pot. There are countless topics that can be introduced which may be of real value to folks living and working here. Unfortunately, this appears not to be one of them. |
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sigmoid
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1276
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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When attempting to unravel a conundrum of this magnitude, I usually turn to the Ramones for guidance. And, yeah, verily, upon analysis of the lyrics of their seminal composition "Commando" we find the following:
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COMMANDO
They do their best, they do what they can
They get them ready for Viet Nam
From old Hanoi to East Berlin
Commando - involved again
They do their best, they do what they can
They get them ready for Viet Nam
First rule is: The laws of Germany
Second rule is: Be nice to mommy
Third rule is: Don't talk to commies
Fourth rule is: Eat kosher salamis
(REPEAT ALL ONCE) |
Quite clearly the judgement of the Ramones is obvious and indisputable: the name of the country is Viet Nam.
Case closed. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| sigmoid wrote: |
When attempting to unravel a conundrum of this magnitude, I usually turn to the Ramones for guidance. And, yeah, verily, upon analysis of the lyrics of their seminal composition "Commando" we find the following:
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COMMANDO
They do their best, they do what they can
They get them ready for Viet Nam
From old Hanoi to East Berlin
Commando - involved again
They do their best, they do what they can
They get them ready for Viet Nam
First rule is: The laws of Germany
Second rule is: Be nice to mommy
Third rule is: Don't talk to commies
Fourth rule is: Eat kosher salamis
(REPEAT ALL ONCE) |
Quite clearly the judgement of the Ramones is obvious and indisputable: the name of the country is Viet Nam.
Case closed. |
Just like they have on Facebook, we really need a 'like' option on Dave's  . |
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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| sigmoid wrote: |
When attempting to unravel a conundrum of this magnitude, I usually turn to the Ramones for guidance. And, yeah, verily, upon analysis of the lyrics of their seminal composition "Commando" we find the following:
| Quote: |
COMMANDO
They do their best, they do what they can
They get them ready for Viet Nam
From old Hanoi to East Berlin
Commando - involved again
They do their best, they do what they can
They get them ready for Viet Nam
First rule is: The laws of Germany
Second rule is: Be nice to mommy
Third rule is: Don't talk to commies
Fourth rule is: Eat kosher salamis
(REPEAT ALL ONCE) |
Quite clearly the judgement of the Ramones is obvious and indisputable: the name of the country is Viet Nam.
Case closed. |
LIKE! |
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mushroom_season
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| I prefer calling it Annam or rather the "pacified south". |
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Dekadan
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| I find it interesting that other languages (not just English) decide to change a name of a place. The Vietnamese call it Viet Nam, not Vietnam. The city is Ho Chi Minh City, though many will accept Sai Gon. Ha Noi and not Hanoi. While these are relatively minor and don't really alter pronunciation, it strikes me as disrespectful to change someone's name. If someone screwed up my name, I would correct them. If they continued to deliberately screw up my name, then they are a jerk and I would have nothing to do with them. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Many Asian countries actually have different names in English. For example, the Japanese name for Japan is Nippon. Many people refer to South Korea as simply Korea. Most English speaking countries consider Taiwan as a separate country from China, but the Chinese don't. Myanmar is still often called Burma. I'm sure there's many others. |
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mushroom_season
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Its called Vietnam only to save space in a Telegraph. It costs more to write Viet Nam than it does to write Vietnam. |
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I'm With Stupid
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Dekadan wrote: |
| I find it interesting that other languages (not just English) decide to change a name of a place. The Vietnamese call it Viet Nam, not Vietnam. The city is Ho Chi Minh City, though many will accept Sai Gon. Ha Noi and not Hanoi. While these are relatively minor and don't really alter pronunciation, it strikes me as disrespectful to change someone's name. |
I don't think they do change the name of a place. Chances are that Europeans called Vietnam Vietnam long before the Vietnamese adopted the Roman alphabet and decided on the single-syllable spelling structure. Like most names, it would've been an attempt at representing what the local people called the country in an alphabet that it had never been written in. With older countries, this would then have evolved over the ages in a period with less formalized spelling in the same way that human names did to get the variety we see today. New countries formed in the modern era almost always have the same name throughout the world (although even then, different alphabets can entrench different pronunciations, with sounds that aren't normally present in a language generally being dismissed or reworked in some way - the Japanese for ice cream is my favourite example of this). The only time this doesn't happen is for political reasons, hence Myanmar/Burma. |
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