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Racism
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gytfunke



Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:33 pm    Post subject: Racism Reply with quote

Hello,

I'm currently a teacher in South Korea. I've been here for about 2 years total. I have a hard time dealing with the racism I experience, especially at my workplaces (past and current).

After my current contract is finished, I'm leaving. I'd like to go to Japan and I want to know what people already living there think of the state of racism in Japan.

Tell me some stories and give me your opinions about it.
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G Cthulhu



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Racism Reply with quote

gytfunke wrote:
I want to know what people already living there think of the state of racism in Japan.


In the sense that you're probably meaning, in my experience it's pretty much non-existent. Ignorance is rife. The Japanese seem to do racism and bigotry on a level that lumps everyone into "Japanese" and "Everyone Else" so that it's a pretty simple affair, IMO. You can certainly run into more garden variety racism & bigotry, but it seems a lot less common.

It's actually quite interesting watching the people coming in with chips on their shoulders get very confused about not having something specific to rile against. They take the slights as personal until they realize that most/all non-Japanese get the same slights, and then they don't quite know what to do. (Black American women, I'm looking at you) Likewise, watching people from the majority end of their societies come in and experience the same things for the first time. (White American men, I'm looking at you as well)[1]






1. Type specifiers chosen from what stood out in my memory for their extreme reactions, coupled with the annoying American habit of thinking that "racism" can only be of the form they experience/know within their national context. Yes, it's a generalization and there are exceptions, but if you get your panties in a twist over that observation then you haven't reflected on your experiences around the world enough. Every country & everyone does it to a degree and in their own "special little way". I really don't care to hear about "how I'm wrong" & how your not racist.[2][3]


2. See what I did there? Wink
3. If you're taking any of that personally then you're really missing the point. Confused
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When my wife and I went to Korea, we got starred at pretty hard. I think they all thought that she was Korean. So we did get mean mugged quite a bit.

Japan, not as bad from what I have heard about SK. They are mostly ignorant about most of the world. Though I have met many young and liberal Japanese, who hate the Chinese, really hard.
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dove



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: USA/Japan

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the racism in Japan is as apparent in other countries because--in my experience--MOST (NOT all: putting flame-retardent suit on right now)Japanese people keep their feelings to themselves, especially in public. Some might stare (but is that racism?), but it's unlikely you will ever hear someone confront a stranger, a foreigner, with a racist comment. Once or twice I have heard two people on a train say something to each other like "I wish all foreigners would go home." Of course they said it in Japanese and they probably didn't think I could understand Japanese. I felt like asking that person if they had any idea how many thousands of Japanese people live in NYC or Los Angeles. But like most Japanese people, I didn't want to draw attention to myself. I just want to get on with my life.
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Kionon



Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Academically, there's a difference between racial prejudice and racism. The second is institutionalised. Also racism itself comes in two flavors, the second of which is called "disparate impact" and is pretty difficult to prove. The first type is clear-cut "black people can't vote" the second appears, prima facea, as like it could apply to anyone (poll taxes, grandfather clauses, etc), but intentionally set up to have a greater impact on the discrimination target.

My own experience in Korea was terrible. I don't know if I was dealing with racism or just racial prejudice because I did not read, write, or speak Korean. I still don't. I do know I couldn't do much of anything at all without a guide or or my employers, and my employers were blatantly racist and would fly into drunken rages whenever we went out to "dinner meetings." I had experiences with people cutting in front of me in line, running straight into me and not apologising, and plenty of pointing, staring, and laughing with comments that included "waygook." And to top it off, my bosses were stealing with me, and started to threaten me. Luckily, the Korean Revenue Service shut them down, but it wasn't because they were protecting me, it was because my employers were not paying taxes.

in Japan, I run into a lot of disparate impact situations, but that's to be expected because we're such a small part of the general population. However, it is not "racism" as much as it is ethnocentricity. There is a lot more to Japanese views of superiority than race or blood, and in fact, I think in general, most Japanese I've met no longer believe that their specialness hinges on being descendants of the divinely created Yamato people. Rather, they believe that Japan has a historiographically traceable uniqueness which makes it superior in culture and national organisation, and they believe this without ever actually stopping and thinking about why they believe this to be true. Further there is this belief that this culture and national organisation is outside of the ability to people not born in Japan (and not at least somewhat ethnically related to the Japanese) to grasp, with a few rare exceptions, and those individuals are hailed as supreme examples of outside peoples because they are capable of "getting" Japan. This attitude explains why the Japanese think the Japanese language is extremely hard (when it's no harder than any other, and easier than some), or why you will be asked, "oh you can use chopsticks?" a billion times despite the fact most Western nations have Chinese take out and plenty of NJs have been using chopsticks since childhood... etc, etc.

I've only run into one person who ever said, "You're barbarians. We should throw you out. We never should have lost the war. I hope we rise up, take back all of our holdings, and send you back across the Pacific." That dude was insane. I immediately received apologies from all of the Japanese in earshot. Whatever their beliefs, one doesn't speak such things, and he shamed everyone.


Last edited by Kionon on Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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steki47



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rxk22 wrote:
They are mostly ignorant about most of the world.


Much of the behavior I see in Japan seems more like ignorance rather than explicit racism. Funny, a lot of the Japanese I deal with seem rather ignorant about the rest of Japan and other Japanese. More like provincial than racist.

Now, having said that, the website to my current apartment says, "Foreigners OK!" (外国人可). Am I dog? Anyway, nice place.

And I have not heard too many stories of young Japanese men jumping and beating English teachers. Something I have heard of in that other country.
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Kionon



Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steki47 wrote:
rxk22 wrote:
They are mostly ignorant about most of the world.


Much of the behavior I see in Japan seems more like ignorance rather than explicit racism. Funny, a lot of the Japanese I deal with seem rather ignorant about the rest of Japan and other Japanese. More like provincial than racist.

Now, having said that, the website to my current apartment says, "Foreigners OK!" (外国人可). Am I dog? Anyway, nice place.

And I have not heard too many stories of young Japanese men jumping and beating English teachers. Something I have heard of in that other country.


It has happened here, but I am on my way to work, so I don't have the time to google-fu and pull it up. It is really rare, like crime in general...
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As others have written, you will find far less overt racism in Japan. (See Debito Arudo's Just Because column in The Japan Times, the one on microaggressions, for the things that may annoy a person subconsciously.)

Not completely sure what experience you would actually call racism.
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nightsintodreams



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Japan is most definitely a very nationalistic country, but I've never experienced direct, aggressive style racism like someone might see in the UK.

People will freak out when you speak Japanese at times though, you will get people refusing to speak to you in Japanese (regardless of whether they can speak English or not) and you will hear ignorant comments regularly.

Only last week some of my teachers were talking about a foreign student (when i say foreign, I mean he was born in Japan, his ancestry is half Japanese, but his parents are Brazilian) and one teacher said "He has a head like a black egg.", the other teachers smiled and laughed. If that was in the UK or the USA I imagine a comment like that could very easily end up on the news, but in Japan it doesn't seem to even be seen as an inappropriate in the slightest.
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Kionon



Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nightsintodreams wrote:
Only last week some of my teachers were talking about a foreign student (when i say foreign, I mean he was born in Japan, his ancestry is half Japanese, but his parents are Brazilian) and one teacher said "He has a head like a black egg.", the other teachers smiled and laughed. If that was in the UK or the USA I imagine a comment like that could very easily end up on the news, but in Japan it doesn't seem to even be seen as an inappropriate in the slightest.


I would have said something if I had heard it, but that's just the kind of person I am.

And even the various "microaggressions" which Debito mentions do not go unremarked by me when I see them/hear them. I also refuse to speak English to those who refuse to speak Japanese to me, especially when it is clear my Japanese is more proficient than their English. I've even pretended to be a Francophone on more than one occasion just to make a point. It usually happens at stations or tourist sites in Tokyo. Not so much in Kyoto, or especially not random places in rural Japan.

Me: naninaninaninani
person: broken English
me: 日本語お願いします。
person: more broken, incomprehensible English.
me: Je ne comprend pas. Parlez-vous francais?
person: *blank look*
me: *finds someone else to speak Japanese*

Also, I can usually forestall the "Makudon Menu Flip" by going up and immediately reading from the menu in Japanese without giving the person a chance to switch to English.

That being said, this really is a small minority of situations, and I don't often need to do it. I imagine if I lived in Tokyo, it would become a problem for me, and I might start to lose my temper. This is one of the main reasons I can't stay in Tokyo for more than two weeks. It starts to seriously grind me down...
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Inflames



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 486

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some friends and I were talking about the language a few years ago. My friend pointed out (something I agree with) is that, the more Japanese you know, the more apparent the ways you're being screwed become. I've never really had any problems with people speaking English with me.

On the one hand, understanding all the random comments is usually OK although when you hear someone say stuff like 「外人怖い」 it usually ruins your day (to be fair, I've had that like twice and 「外人帰れ」 twice as well). Most of the time, people just say stuff about my height.

The racism that one is likely to encounter in Japan is the kind that someone here for a year or two isn't ever likely to encounter. Employment and apartments are two of the big areas. Apparently credit cards are as well although I'm not sure about that.
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nightsintodreams



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Some friends and I were talking about the language a few years ago. My friend pointed out (something I agree with) is that, the more Japanese you know, the more apparent the ways you're being screwed become. I've never really had any problems with people speaking English with me.


I most certainly agree with this. You also don't realise how fake 90% of people who can speak English are. My advise to anyone in Japan would be to study Japanese and get as far away as possible from the ones who can speak English. They're using you!

The worst case of racism I've encountered was in Nagoya. I was out shopping at the underground mall/departo with my ex-girlfriend. We rarely held hands or linked arms in public, mainly because I didn't want to look like i was showing off the fact I was with a Japanese girl.

Anyway, this particular time we were walking arms linked when a Homeless guy shouted "外人気触れ、バカ!" . at the time i didn't know the meaning of "気触れ", I thought he was saying that Foreign cabaret was stupid. Haha!
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steki47



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kionon wrote:

It has happened here, but I am on my way to work, so I don't have the time to google-fu and pull it up. It is really rare, like crime in general...


No, you're right. 2-3 months a go, a Nepalese man was beaten to death by 4-5 "yanki"-types.

Back in 2005 or so, there was a news article about an English teacher who was beaten to death by "yakuza". (I really, really think there was more to that story. Very, very suspicious.)
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steki47



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double post
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Kionon



Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really a racism thing...

The only thing I hear is "顔小ちゃい" because I am pretty small. It's annoying in Japanese, but it is really annoying in broken English, "face small" or "small face." Apparently this is almost a type of compliment, but I find it completely offensive. I let my students get away with it for the first week or so, but always gently reminding them it is "悪い言葉" at least in regards to me. Mostly my Japanese coworkers understand why this is not something I want to constantly hear, but every so often I get one who says, "but it's meant as a compliment, so it's okay if they do it." No, it's not. I get to decide that, not you, and certainly not the thirteen year olds.

It's really the random Japanese adults I meet who say the same thing and then get all defensive or offended or blatantly ignore me when I say, "That's actually considered rude where I'm from, and while I appreciate the intent of the compliment, please don't do it again" who bother me a lot. Have the decency to recognise that regardless of your cultural confusion at my reaction, clearly it bothers me, so don't do it again. That's just being nice, which is above any cultural variance.
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