Job Discussion Forums

[Janiny]

Good day to you fellow ESL teachers,

I am certain you are all aware that the world economy is on a downturn, possibly its worst since the 1930's. An advantage of ESL, like tobacco and alcohol, is that in good times people demand it; and in bad times they demand it all the more!

I had a thought. Rather than griping and joking around on this forum: how about if we ESL teacher spent some time sending out curriculum vitae for jobs we don't need?

My idea is to include our expected salary in the cover letter or CV itself, and ask for a mark up on what you know the school is probably offering.

We would not actually pursue these jobs or egg the hapless ESL institute on. Just simply present your splendidly impressive education and experience, or at least your apple-cheeked youthful photo to let them know what sort of teachers are out there.

The point is we would inform them of our expectations.

You guys know what a fair salary should be in the country you're working in, and maybe a few others besides. Let's help out our brethren who are looking for jobs to get a better salary.

So all I'm suggesting is spending a little less time on the forum and a bit more on the job board, at Dave's and elsewhere.

I emphasize that I am not suggesting we present ourselves as seriously pursuing a particular job offer - beyond the initial emailing of a resume which includes a declaration of fair to comfortable salary expectation.

Maybe, just maybe it will raise awareness among potential employers of our needs, which are after all, merely human.

If enough of us do it, we can make a difference. Here's an inspirational paraphrase I picked up in a book on recycling:

Never think that a small group of people cannot change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!

Christ and the twelve leap to my mind as an excellent example.

Now the Korean Forum, and perhaps the Chinese, and others I don't know about have a separate registration from this main international forum. May I ask any of you who are registered on another forum, Dave's Cafe or elsewhere, to please pass this message on?

If you do not wish to join this discussion openly. Pleas PM me. I would like to know there are others out there.

[Glenski]

In Japan, the market is flooded with teachers right now. It's a buyer's market, and teachers have no way to negotiate most of the time. Wages have been dropping, schools are closing/merging, and the declining bithrate doesn't help put butts in seats of schools.

I think your proposition has positive overtones, but I see it as a wasteful and pointless gesture.

[Janiny]

[Justin Trullinger]

I thought we were going to discuss Jonathan Swift. I can see what you'd like to do, and I admit the altruism of your motives. But...

Gotta say, I'm not seeing the good in this- most employers set salaries based on what IS paid in the market they're in. While there are teachers that meet the employers needs, and work for what is currently being paid, it isn't going up. What's asked for by prospectives who don't even wind up working there doesn't come into the calculation.

And as a part time administrator, I get enough silly emails with salary expectations that Ecuador can't offer as it is. I don't see where getting emails from teachers who want more, but aren't coming, is going to enable me to offer more.

You seem to be basing your suggestion on the idea that schools have lots of money, and if we just let them know that good teachers want more, they'll start offering it.

I don't see it. My experience is that good schools are frequently barely getting by. And bad schools, who may have better margins, aren't going to raise salaries when they get what they need paying what they're paying now.

If teachers working in the school demand more, maybe. If no one will go to work in a school on what they're paying, then they'll raise salaries eventually. But letters from prospective teachers... I throw away a lot of prospective letters that state salary expectations already. I can throw away as many more as you want without it increasing our margins any.


Best,
Justin

[mister tom]

[Janiny]

[Justin Trullinger]

[naturegirl321]

It would be nice, but I've learned, after 6 years of experience, an MA, lecturing at natl and intl conferences, and working for language schools, unis, primary and secondary schools, basiclaly, they don't care. they want the cheapest teacher they can get, And somethings, like being white, matter than others, like being able to teach.

[fladude]

Well salary requests make some sense as long as they are reasonable. I would think that even in Ecuador it wouldn't be unreasonable to want 1000 bucks a month. At some point you start to fall below the point where you can survive comfortably.

As for the Global Economy.... What are you guys talking about ? ?? Dont you watch TV? Haven't you heard about all the GREEN SHOOTS?? LOL.... My God it's a virtual 1998 all over again!!!

[Glenski]

[Cool Teacher]

[Cool Teacher]

[Cool Teacher]

[Janiny]

[fluffyhamster]

But seriously, who has time to send out 'CVs for jobs we don't need, stating expected salary'? "Job hunting" is a pain at the "best" of times, to be avoided except when one really has to do it - and does anyone really want to burn any bridges before they've even got to them (given the way that things could be going)? It wouldn't be inconceivable that a school that one had "wound up" previously could eventually be one that one was needing to seriously apply to - remember that most people would probably confine themselves to contacting schools only in those countries that they were working in, or had worked in and were intending to work in again, due to being more familiar with the cost of living in those countries.

Joining a union, or unionizing, would make more sense. Get the job first, then try to improve things (or at least not let them get appreciably worse). Sending out "speculative" CVs would seem like showing one's hand too early, to somebody who wasn't even at the table where you were playing your current game of cards.