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im_not_a_violentdrunk
Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 59
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 Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 7:09 pm Post subject: Doing a TEFL for the right reasons? |
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Hello everyone, thanks in advance for taking the time to read this and address my questions. I have been an occasional browser of these forums for some time (while a TEFL existed as just a pipe dream for me). I am 23 years old and like many people my age who have finished university I am struggling to find work here. I have always wanted to go to Japan to teach English, but initially I had wanted the safety net of a couple of years work-savings to take with me. My questions therefore are this.
1.) Will a year or 18months experience of TEFL teaching be recognised by companies looking for client facing experience. (From anybody's personal experience). Again, I'm aware it's down to the individual to show how their skills and experiences are translatable to the job they are applying for.
2.)At the moment I'm not looking for a career in TEFL, should this discourage me from taking time out to do it?
3.)I would prefer to teach younger children as I have some experience teaching young children French (self-employed to supplement my French GCSE's)
4.)I'm prepared to work hard, but do those who you continue to teach in Japan really enjoy it? To what extent are you able to interact with the local culture?
Again, thanks for taking the time to read my post, and I hope to get the chance to get to know some of the regular posters better in time! Have a nice day, and I hope it's as sunny wherever you are as it is here!  |
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Kionon
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Doing a TEFL for the right reasons? |
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| im_not_a_violentdrunk wrote: |
1.) Will a year or 18months experience of TEFL teaching be recognised by companies looking for client facing experience. (From anybody's personal experience). |
Not sure what you mean. Are you asking if a position in Japan will look favorably on prior experience in TEFL? If so, yes. How much of an impact depends on where you are applying. Are you asking with a year or 18 months of TEFL experience help you enter in another field after you leave Japan? Depends. Education? Yes. Anything else... well, it might show that you are flexible and adaptable, moving to another country is stressful for many people, and so dealing with it adequately might be a point in your favor, however beyond that... Probably not. It helped me get into my graduate program, but my graduate program is focused on Japanese political theory, so a background in Japan period was a plus for my program.
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| 2.)At the moment I'm not looking for a career in TEFL, should this discourage me from taking time out to do it? |
No, unless this is code for "I'm not serious, this is just a vacation for me, I want to get paid to live in Japan so I tool around doing X, Y, and Z." If it is code for that kind of viewpoint, I personally would advise against it, but others may (and do) disagree. YMMV.
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| 3.)I would prefer to teach younger children as I have some experience teaching young children French (self-employed to supplement my French GCSE's) |
How young? Kindergarten? Elementary? Plenty of available positions for those age ranges. You're welcome to them; I prefer to deal with adolescents.
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| 4.)I'm prepared to work hard, but do those who you continue to teach in Japan really enjoy it? To what extent are you able to interact with the local culture? |
I complain a lot about my issues with teaching methodologies (or lack thereof) in Japanese classrooms, but ultimately, I average like one or two truly awful days a year. Most days are fair to awesome, tilted heavily towards awesome. I genuinely enjoy working with my students, my coworkers (as long as they afford me the same respect I afford them), and being involved in my local community.
Being one of only 20 foreigners in my previous area, everyone knew who I was, so there was a lot of pressure to always put on a good face and never get in trouble. I'm in the process of moving to a major city, many, many times the size of my little town in Kyoto prefecture, so we shall see how this changes.
At this point, I consider Japan my home and I don't plan to leave any time soon if ever. If I can manage to qualify for the five year or three year visa on my ext renewal, I will apply for permanent residency sometime after that point. |
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im_not_a_violentdrunk
Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Kionon, Thanks for your super fast and considered response. On the first point, you were correct in asking whether it would be of use to enter another field. You mention education, the career path I am looking to take will eventually be in sales/marketing. What I was getting at, was rather than sitting at home doing nothing, would it in your opinion show commitment and reliability (something I am unable to prove to prospective employers due to no real work experience).
On point no.2.) It is not code for not being serious, I was after the advice of someone like yourself that has extensive experience, would you recommend the programme to someone that is looking for an opportunity to develop their handling of responsibility and planning, to help them prepare for working life? I'm aware, having read some of the forums before that many of the regular posters such as yourself have made a career out of it, I was just trying to explain that its not my intention at this point in time (although I am open to all eventualities).
3.) Probably kindergarten, as I really enjoyed (during my french lessons) gearing the lessons towards game based learning.Once your out in Japan, how much control would I have over the way I would structure my lessons. Are these positions paid less, or do you personally prefer teaching adolescents because it is more professionally rewarding?
4.)I'm glad that you have enjoyed your time in Japan so far and it sounds like you are getting a lot out of your experience, good luck with your move.
Thanks again for taking the time out to answer my questions |
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Kionon
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| im_not_a_violentdrunk wrote: |
| What I was getting at, was rather than sitting at home doing nothing, would it in your opinion show commitment and reliability (something I am unable to prove to prospective employers due to no real work experience). |
If you have no previous work experience at all, then absolutely this will help out your resume. Right now you cannot show you have any history of reliability and you have no work references. This is a serious disadvantage in most Western job markets right now. In the US, you have MBAs with 20 years of experience wandering around trying to get entry level positions, many members of the class of 2012 will have issues with getting employment in a reasonable time frame.
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| It is not code for not being serious, I was after the advice of someone like yourself that has extensive experience, would you recommend the programme to someone that is looking for an opportunity to develop their handling of responsibility and planning, to help them prepare for working life? |
Yes and no. I'm of the personal opinion (and again, others may and do disagree) it is not wise to move to a foreign country if you have never moved across town or across your state, province, or country and established yourself independently from your parents. This may not apply to you, since I do not know how old you are, but since you have no work experience I am making an educated conjecture that you may not have lived on your own before. This is a major adjustment when you are in your own culture, language, and area. You must add many levels of magnitude when you are moving to a new country with a different culture and language. Canada? Not so much of an issue. South Africa, probably a bit more difficult? Germany or France? Add the language barrier. Asia? Ooh boy...
However, if you feel you are up to task of adjusting, then as much as I may complain about the fact that many positions in Japan are such that they are essentially on-the-job-training... the fact is they are essentially on-the-job-training. For me, this can be incredibly frustrating, but it is ideal for many people such as yourself who need to ease into responsibility and initiative, and I absolutely believe that if you are able to sketch out the professional growth you have experienced in Japan in future interviews, it will be very much seen as an advantage to those employers.
Bluntly, if you take your job seriously and really try to develop that professional growth, you're a-okay with me, and you will not be one of the slackers I often complain about.
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| 3.) Probably kindergarten, as I really enjoyed (during my french lessons) gearing the lessons towards game based learning.Once your out in Japan, how much control would I have over the way I would structure my lessons. Are these positions paid less, or do you personally prefer teaching adolescents because it is more professionally rewarding? |
We have a saying here on the Japan forums: ESID, every situation is different. How much control you have will depend on a multitude of factors. The facts in your control are you seriousness, your willingness to learn, your initiative, the skill levels you bring with you, and certain aspects of your professional personality. The facts not in your control are how your employers see you, what materials or resources you may be mandated, whether or not you will be a co-teacher or solo teacher....
I've worked with kindergarteners only about three or four times in Japan, just covering for friends in emergencies. In general, I remember being given a topic, but left totally to my own devices otherwise (colors, animals, music/songs, etc) and a HUGE amount of Japanese was necessary, because the men and women who taught kindergarteners knew no English. Not even a little bit (sometimes the elementary school teachers will know a few sentences). I have no idea how structured my friends' lessons were since I was simply pinch-hitting.
I did my undergraduate with the intent to be a normal, run-of-the-mill American high school English teacher. While in my teenage years, I thought I'd teach in Japan, by undergraduate I actually thought it was a fantasy that would go unfulfilled. I have no primary education training, pedagogy, or methodology experiences beyond the bare minimum that all teachers-to-be in my courses received prior to the upper division primary/secondary split. I find small children extremely tiring, and I can only handle them one or two days a week. I could never be a primary education teacher. I'd age twice as fast, have a heart attack, and be dead by 40.
ES teachers tell me they feel that way about adolescents, so I guess it's good we all have our own callings. We look at each other and say, "Thank God you love your age range, because I wouldn't want it!"
Last edited by Kionon on Sat May 26, 2012 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:02 am Post subject: |
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1.) Will a year or 18months experience of TEFL teaching be recognised by companies looking for client facing experience. (From anybody's personal experience). Again, I'm aware it's down to the individual to show how their skills and experiences are translatable to the job they are applying for.
If I understand you (not sure about the expression "client facing experience"), you are trying to say you have (or will have) teaching experience for 18 months prior to coming here. Yeah, sure, it will be recognized. To what extent depends on what type of experience it is.
2.)At the moment I'm not looking for a career in TEFL, should this discourage me from taking time out to do it?
Many people come here with the express thought of leaving in 1-2 years. My only advice is to be prepared for what is expected of you in any classroom, and to do your best to meet those expectations. Also, consider what a gap like that in your employment record will do to affect your resume for other work that you will want to pursue back home.
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| would you recommend the programme to someone that is looking for an opportunity to develop their handling of responsibility and planning, to help them prepare for working life? |
By "the programme" I presume you simply mean teaching English. Correct me if I'm wrong. To come here as a fresh college grad and pick up some teaching experience will give you a modicum of feeling towards what it is like to enter any working world, but obviously the focus will be on the Japanese teaching working world. Knowing you have just graduated college, and reading the above, I suspect you are hoping that a life teaching in Japan for a couple of years is intended to give you an impression of what work will be like back in your homeland. The answer to that depends entirely on you, but as I indicated above, and knowing you want to pursue a career in sales/marketing instead, I'd say TEFL in Japan won't help that much beyond very basic things:
*You have to report to work on time.
*You probably have to dress appropriately.
*Awareness of customers as paying clients, not always just as students.
*Subservience to a boss or bosses.
*Co-worker relationships. (this item and the one immediately above are case by case and will largely be more culturally Japanese in focus, which means the experience may not translate to things back home)
*Exposure to interviewing and contracts.
*Etc.
3.)I would prefer to teach younger children as I have some experience teaching young children French (self-employed to supplement my French GCSE's)
Was this a question of some kind? French is somewhat commonly taught, but not extensively. Look at places like Berlitz, which specialize in more than just English. It's not clear to me whether you currently are self-employed and teaching French, or want to teach French on the side over here while your main job would be teaching English.
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| Once your out in Japan, how much control would I have over the way I would structure my lessons. Are these positions paid less, or do you personally prefer teaching adolescents because it is more professionally rewarding? |
The level of control teachers in eikaiwa have will depend on the employer. For very young kids, you might be expected to just play with them, or there might be a formal structure you should follow. Most entry level jobs run the same salary regardless of the age of students.
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| It did occur to me that you would need a higher level of Japanese to deal with younger children |
But you may not be permitted to use any Japanese with them. Parents and some employers often prefer the immersion approach.
4.)I'm prepared to work hard, but do those who you continue to teach in Japan really enjoy it? To what extent are you able to interact with the local culture?
I can only speak for myself. Yes, I enjoy it. Have started with eikaiwa, gone to private HS, and now am in uni.
Interacting with local culture? Uh, it's all around! What did you mean? Work in eikaiwa, and you will probably have to be in the office from noon to 9pm five days a week. Your weekend may/may not be 2 consecutive days, and may/may not be Sat/Sun. So, except for your days off, your potential to interact with surroundings will be limited to the mornings. It's up to you do determine in that limited time frame whether you want to join a gym or community club or church, date, sightsee, take language lessons yourself, make friends, go out in the evenings, explore your neighborhood, etc. I made a point of getting a bicycle and exploring my neighborhood, taking pictures, and using the knowledge gained to write a monthly newsletter to friends and family. A coworker of mine worked out in a gym and bought a video game to help while away the time (and learn some Japanese). Both of us ended up with J girlfriends (I married mine). With my gf I was able to explore more locations and discover more about the culture. It's all up to you what you do with your free time.
Last edited by Glenski on Sat May 26, 2012 12:21 am; edited 2 times in total |
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im_not_a_violentdrunk
Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Kionon. Many thanks again for your prompt and considered reply. I have lived away from home before, I spent a month in france on my own when I was 17 to help with my french and thoroughly enjoyed the experience(although the French can be extremely haughty when correcting your French!) I went to boarding school before that and have lived away from home at uni. I am only 23 though, so I haven't been independent in terms of having a job and a life, so you were pretty much on the mark! I have always considered myself up for a challenge and would be under no illusion that it would all be plain sailing. I am from england but have asian (indian) heritage, so I am aware of the need to make cultural adjustments, and have always viewed this with fascination rather than annoyance. Thanks for your thoughts on teaching kindergarteners, It did occur to me that you would need a higher level of Japanese to deal with younger children, and perhaps this is something that I will look at more closely after I have completed my TEFL course. Thans again  |
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im_not_a_violentdrunk
Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Hi Glenski, thank you for reading my posts and getting back to me.
1.) Sorry, this wasn't made clear on my part. What I meant was (after having taught in Japan for a year to 18 months-i.e the amount of time I would hope to spend there)
2.)I can only really agree with you here, the gap however would be better than the situation out here at the moment ( to qualified for bar/restaurant jobs and not enough experience for anything else!). But as it is something that I feel i could passionately commit myself to, I hope If I can do a good job it can only be a positive.
3.)I'm not expecting it to resemble the working world back home, I'm expecting it to be crazy and completely different, but I'm hoping that that's half of the fun/charm/challenge  . Thanks for taking the time to draw out the points that are relavent to the career that I had stated that I hope to pursue long term though.
Was this a question of some kind? French is somewhat commonly taught, but not extensively. Look at places like Berlitz, which specialize in more than just English. It's not clear to me whether you currently are self-employed and teaching French, or want to teach French on the side over here while your main job would be teaching English.
Again, my bad- I forgot to put that into an actual question, Kionon touched on it on his/her (sorry Kionon I don't know which!). What I meant was, having had some experience (which I really enjoyed) teaching kindergarteners French, is it possible to choose the age range you wish to teach, and what age-range would you recommend to someone my age(23) with no experience?
interacting with local culture? Uh, it's all around! What did you mean?
You answered my question, even though you weren't sure what I meant Joining a gym, or sports team of some sort, meeting new people, taking beginners Japanese or Japanese history lessons etc..
Thanks again for all your answers |
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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:33 am Post subject: |
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Hi there! 
Not sure what you mean by "Doing a TEFL"  Is this a TEFL certificate like CELTA or a MA or do you mean just doing TEFL teaching in Japan?
I think a short time teaching can look good on your resume or CV if thats your question 1.
For questions 2 then it depends if you have interest in Japan. If you do then maybe it is not so important that you dont want a TEFL carreer
Yes teaching kids is more than possible. More than likely actually
I work hard but I enjoy it. It is so rewarding to see the smiles on your students face. |
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im_not_a_violentdrunk
Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:40 am Post subject: |
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Hi Cool Teacher, haha I bet that brings a smile to your face every time somebody types your sign in name Yea, by doing a Tefl I meant getting the qualification by an online class or trying to do a cambridge celta/equivalent with supervised teaching etc and then going out to Japan to secure a job.
Yea that's pretty much what question one was about!
2.) Is it too much of a cliche to say that I am obsessed with Japanese food? I also have an interest in asian cinema (S.Korean and Japanese/Hong Kong in particular). The little I know about Japanese history and way of life fascinates me! |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 4:10 am Post subject: |
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Putting eikaiwa experience on a resume back home will probably not do much, especially if you are looking for a non-teaching career. There are those who could put a spin on it, I suppose, that would make it seem more than what it is.
How did you envision putting eikaiwa teaching in a favorable light for sales/marketing? You won't sell or market or close deals here. Handing out flyers will not count for much. Your role is chiefly to help students with English, whether as a beginning stage or review for conversation. A year or two will not give you much chance if any to develop skills or insights that help western sales/marketing jobs, IMO. If you really want to come here and make things pay off, why not consider a trainee visa or internship visa?
Regarding choosing the age of students, you teach who you are given. Look at the school's clientele description before signing on, but to be totally honest, it's an employer's market nowadays, not a teacher's. They are in more of a position to sift and choose. |
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Kionon
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Putting eikaiwa experience on a resume back home will probably not do much, especially if you are looking for a non-teaching career. There are those who could put a spin on it, I suppose, that would make it seem more than what it is. |
I really don't agree with this, Glenski. I would agree if the OP had other work experience. However, this is not the case. I certainly didn't intend to go into grocery store management when I bagged groceries, and I didn't intend to become a unionised projectionist when I worked for a movie theatre. And I've worked for a department store on and off for years, and retail certainly isn't in my future as a career! My resume is full of work I needed temporarily, or had as a student, or even tried to make a career out of (journalism, politics, heck, even the military...), but they're all on my resume, and they've come up in teaching interviews. "Oh, hey, I see you have a lot of different work experiences... What did you learn about professionalism in those positions?"
OP has a blank slate. I see only advantage, minor as it may be, in putting something on it, and I'd say an eikaiwa job is more "professional" than a grocery bagger or popcorn server! |
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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| im_not_a_violentdrunk wrote: |
Hi Cool Teacher, haha I bet that brings a smile to your face every time somebody types your sign in name Yea, by doing a Tefl I meant getting the qualification by an online class or trying to do a cambridge celta/equivalent with supervised teaching etc and then going out to Japan to secure a job.
Yea that's pretty much what question one was about!
2.) Is it too much of a cliche to say that I am obsessed with Japanese food? I also have an interest in asian cinema (S.Korean and Japanese/Hong Kong in particular). The little I know about Japanese history and way of life fascinates me! |
Hi there back! Yeah I like to see my name but I also thinki you have a funny name.  You are not a violent drunk but are you a drunk? Or are you a violent sober person? The possibilites are litearlly endless!
But seriously, I think TEFL MA online certificates are not worth it is you don't want a career. They can cost about 1,000,000 yen or more depending on the place you get it. 
CELTA is quite good. I have one and very intersting and useful for learning teaching techniques but it still costs a bit of money and might not be worth it if you have no interest in a carreer of teaching. My advice wouldbe to save the money and come to Japan to teach but do the CELTA later if you think you would liek to do more teaching. If you have done some teaching I think you might enjoy the CELTA course more.
I think on an interview/cover letter don't use the word "obsessed". It has a high "weird quotient" for me. Just say you are interested in Japanese sulture such as movies, history, literature and food. |
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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| im_not_a_violentdrunk wrote: |
Hi Cool Teacher, haha I bet that brings a smile to your face every time somebody types your sign in name Yea, by doing a Tefl I meant getting the qualification by an online class or trying to do a cambridge celta/equivalent with supervised teaching etc and then going out to Japan to secure a job.
Yea that's pretty much what question one was about!
2.) Is it too much of a cliche to say that I am obsessed with Japanese food? I also have an interest in asian cinema (S.Korean and Japanese/Hong Kong in particular). The little I know about Japanese history and way of life fascinates me! |
Hi there back! Yeah I like to see my name but I also thinki you have a funny name. You are not a violent drunk but are you a drunk? Or are you a violent sober person? The possibilites are litearlly endless!
But seriously, I think TEFL MA online certificates are not worth it is you don't want a career. They can cost about 1,000,000 yen or more depending on the place you get it.
CELTA is quite good. I have one and very intersting and useful for learning teaching techniques but it still costs a bit of money and might not be worth it if you have no interest in a carreer of teaching. My advice wouldbe to save the money and come to Japan to teach but do the CELTA later if you think you would liek to do more teaching. If you have done some teaching I think you might enjoy the CELTA course more.
I think on an interview/cover letter don't use the word "obsessed". It has a high "weird quotient" for me. Just say you are interested in Japanese sulture such as movies, history, literature and food. |
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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
Putting eikaiwa experience on a resume back home will probably not do much, especially if you are looking for a non-teaching career. There are those who could put a spin on it, I suppose, that would make it seem more than what it is.
How did you envision putting eikaiwa teaching in a favorable light for sales/marketing? You won't sell or market or close deals here. Handing out flyers will not count for much. Your role is chiefly to help students with English, whether as a beginning stage or review for conversation. A year or two will not give you much chance if any to develop skills or insights that help western sales/marketing jobs, IMO. If you really want to come here and make things pay off, why not consider a trainee visa or internship visa?
Regarding choosing the age of students, you teach who you are given. Look at the school's clientele description before signing on, but to be totally honest, it's an employer's market nowadays, not a teacher's. They are in more of a position to sift and choose. |
Glenski, before he became a politician Lyndon Johnson was a teacher. Later he became President of the United States of America. Dont knowck it!
Also, in GEOS I had to sell books to students and "get renewals". I would often tell people about how I know about business from this experience. |
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im_not_a_violentdrunk
Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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How did you envision putting eikaiwa teaching in a favorable light for sales/marketing?
Honestly, many of the interviews that I've been to so far have simply asked for experience of any kind. I've found people being called back on the basis of working in a kitchen etc, on the basis that they can handle a frantic pace and multitask. I imagine I would play up the relationships that I would build with my students, holding their attention and getting them to take their studies seriously would require much of the same tenacity required for a career in sales (I would imagine). Again with marketing, the sheer weight of a years worth of teaching a class of children would provide me with invaluable presentation skills and confidence. I do want to teach English,
I had a quick google of the trainee/internship visa's you mention, are those for specific programmes only? From what I understood, I would not be able to work(i.e. teach) on those Visas? Fair enough with regards to the age of children you are able to teach, I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it! thanks |
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