Job Discussion Forums

[naturegirl321]

While I have a good job and enjoy living in Korea, once you have a kid your clocking starts ticking because of schooling. I'm looking at other nearby countries and have read many of the posts about the quality of life in Vietnam.

I've lived abroad for almost 11 years now, leaving the US when I was 19, so there's not much of a career to go back to. So I'm looking at other Asian countries.

Could anyone tell me about the local schools in Vietnam? Private schools, not international ones, I highly doubt I could afford them on a TEFL salary

Or does anyone know other non Vietnamese kids who have gone to local schools there?

Thanks so much

[inhanoi]

Does your child speak Vietnamese? That's the language used in 'local schools." Not being sarcastic, but you should do some exploring on The New Hanoian website, lots of Q&A there on your question.

[cb400]

I would also look up the 'Hanoi International Women's Club' they would be a valuable source of info.

[naturegirl321]

[bludevil96]

While I have a good job and enjoy living in Korea, once you have a kid your clocking starts ticking because of schooling. I'm looking at other nearby countries and have read many of the posts about the quality of life in Vietnam.

I think you've answered your own question. Why leave a place you've enjoyed living; you're just asking for trouble, especially with a child in tow.

Could anyone tell me about the local schools in Vietnam? Private schools, not international ones, I highly doubt I could afford them on a TEFL salary

There are some very good Vietnamese schools (private boarding school) in HCMC but access is based on academic testing (unless you're really rich or high ranking gvt. officials). Costs are on the same level as good international schools - around 15k/YR.

Seeing what is currently going on in Hanoi and Hai Phong. I would never, ever raise my children in the north. MOD EDIT

[DNK]

"The erosion of proper culture" is a problem only in the North? I forgot smart phones, jeans and tank tops, and K pop style and music were all Vietnamese traditions "As Vietnamese as KFC," a common expression.



OP: I wouldn't bring a kid up in Vietnam - at least not in HCM, and I hear bad things about Hanoi constantly, as witnessed here. I assume at the very least it's not that different from HCM on the "livability index".

You live in a fairly modern country where people actually flush their toilet paper and don't use it as napkins and paper towels as well. Stick to that. I don't understand how Vietnam is going to be easier to afford when everyone always talks about how Korea is king for savings in absolute terms. Vietnam may be good in that for now, but in 10 or 15 years? Doubtful.

The government refuses to keep the exchange rate on track with inflation, so your USD-pegged income is going to continue to decline in relative terms (and they don't have actual inflation stats to peg to). Since I've been here, the rate has increased 10% while inflation has gone up closer to 25%.

If you get work at RMIT or a top-tier school, you can probably afford the private/int'l schools if the posters are being accurate on their costs. That's a big assumption, and an incorrect one if you don't have a Bachelor's. Otherwise, perhaps if both parents work 30-hrs a week it's doable on an otherwise tight budget.

[naturegirl321]

[DNK]

And what's the typical income in Korea, benefits included after tax?

Here, it's about $1000-2000/mo depending on hours. If you get a top-tier school, it can jump up to double, but then you have to live in one of the major cities for that, and they are NOT livable long-term, though a FEW will disagree (shortly, I assume).

Are you going to sit them in your lap as you ride your motorbike around? Perhaps you need a car, too, and the costs do start to escalate.

Probably want to live in a "nice" neighborhood - double the rent price and halve the space for Phu My Hung or the like. And then, well hey, you're living with a bunch of Koreans anyway.

[naturegirl321]

Just one kid Typical salaries in Korea are about the same. I'd say 1800 before deductions of taxes, pension, and insurance. Maybe 1200 to 1500 after that, depending. I'm hoping to get a good job though at a uni, like RMIT.

DNK, guess you'll be leaving Vietnam soon?

[bludevil96]

DNK wrote:
"The erosion of proper culture" is a problem only in the North? I forgot smart phones, jeans and tank tops, and K pop style and music were all Vietnamese traditions "As Vietnamese as KFC," a common expression.

Please re-read. I said "proper", not popular culture that you have alluded to. I'm talking about manners per se. More and more heinous types of crimes are coming out of the Hanoi's culture. Even most of the violent crimes here in the south are committed by gangsters and felons from the north that has migrated south.

OP: I wouldn't bring a kid up in Vietnam - at least not in HCM, and I hear bad things about Hanoi constantly, as witnessed here. I assume at the very least it's not that different from HCM on the "livability index".

That's fine and it's your prerogative.

You live in a fairly modern country where people actually flush their toilet paper and don't use it as napkins and paper towels as well. Stick to that. I don't understand how Vietnam is going to be easier to afford when everyone always talks about how Korea is king for savings in absolute terms. Vietnam may be good in that for now, but in 10 or 15 years? Doubtful.

They called it a "developing country" for a reason. A lot can change in 5 years as I have personally witnessed, never mind 10/15 years. "South Korea" is what most Vietnamese would aspire their country to become, not "Korea" to be specific. It could be taken over by the Chinese or turned democratic in 10 years; nothing is for certain.

The government refuses to keep the exchange rate on track with inflation, so your USD-pegged income is going to continue to decline in relative terms (and they don't have actual inflation stats to peg to). Since I've been here, the rate has increased 10% while inflation has gone up closer to 25%.

True. But in comparison with the value for the money, you're still making a good salary regardless of inflation. If you're in this industry for the almighty dollar, please do everyone a favor and find greener pasture elsewhere. It beats the U.S. and many developed countries hands down.

If you get work at RMIT or a top-tier school, you can probably afford the private/int'l schools if the posters are being accurate on their costs. That's a big assumption, and an incorrect one if you don't have a Bachelor's. Otherwise, perhaps if both parents work 30-hrs a week it's doable on an otherwise tight budget.

RMIT is not the "make all ends all" place. There are major threads and disagreements about RMIT as well as other "top-tier" international farms...er, schools. What HCMC can offer someone with experience from S.Korea is the Korean town (Phu My Hung) and ability to do private side jobs that can be as much as $30-40+/hr, teaching to bored Korean wives and executives. It is true that the minimal requirements would be a BA and many, if not most of the staff at these "top-tier" places have at least an MA.

I've had problems hiring people who will teach p/t (20hrs) for 1K so I think if you're really competent, just getting up in the morning should get you at least $1K here, and no I don't work for a school.

[DNK]

Well, first I'm not starting a family here, and I never would; others have and probably will tell you it's fine for that - different opinions.

Second, everything negative about the big cities is subdued if not reversed for the smaller ones. It's safe to say I won't be living in HCM or Hanoi in a year (though personal commitments keep me here for the present, as well as needing to save a bit more), but I haven't written the country off entirely yet - although the toilet paper stuff does get to me.

The smaller cities are infinitely more livable for people who dislike the frenetic fray that is HCM. Of course, work is harder to come by and the pay is significantly reduced - further issues for starting a family, plus I'd imagine the selection of decent private schools is a lot worse in a Nha Trang or Danang.

[naturegirl321]

I want to thank everyone for their opinions. As for living in not so nice living conditions, I spent 6 years in Peru where places arent' equipped with hot water or heat. And it gets down to about 50 there, you can see your breath. Taken my fair share of bucket showers as well.

I guess it depends on where I can get a good job, but Vietnam still appeals to me.

[kurtz]

Bluedevil wrote :

"Please re-read. I said "proper", not popular culture that you have alluded to. I'm talking about manners per se. More and more heinous types of crimes are coming out of the Hanoi's culture. Even most of the violent crimes here in the south are committed by gangsters and felons from the north that has migrated south."

Not to poke fun, but are you a Vietnamese recruiter?

What is Hanoi's culture BTW?

Are the Vietnamese in the south slack-jawed yokels who wouldn't know how to commit a crime?

"True. But in comparison with the value for the money, you're still making a good salary regardless of inflation. If you're in this industry for the almighty dollar, please do everyone a favor and find greener pasture elsewhere. It beats the U.S. and many developed countries hands down."

Do you think $1000 to $2000 is a good salary when you take out tax, rent, food, fuel, entertainment, flights home, a vacation - heaven forbid if you've got a missus too.

The issue is about raising a kid here. The missus wants one, but I do not. No kid of mine is going near a local primary school, I'd rather not see my little girl squatting on a stone to urinate in the toilets, have 50+ kids in a class with some D grade teacher writing lines on the chalkboard for my little precious to write down and learn through rote.

An international school on a feeble ESL wage, ha! Yeah, right. Maybe on a DOS's or a top school wage, maybe, but as someone else mentioned, having little Huong on the back of a Wave ready to have her little head crushed in an accident is a risk I'd rather not take, there are taxis of course but getting a taxi every time would be a little tedious. You'd have to have rocks in your head to raise a kid here without a car and a very healthy wage.

[DNK]

Bluedevil:

I posted before reading yours.

Really, "reread" when I quoted it in the text? Perhaps your choice of wording was not clear at all. "Proper" is a bit vague, no? No reason to call me out on not understanding you for that. Thanks for the clarification at least.

Really, "SOUTH Korea"? Even the boards and forums here refer to it as just "Korea" because no one ever thinks about North Korea as anything but a near-failed state. Perhaps in Korea they give it more thought...

A good salary? For a family? For how long? What's the typical wage in Japan right now - the inevitable end state for Vietnam's ESL market: Like $20/hr after tax for the basic mill schools? And it's like $17/hr here? Well, we have so much to look forward to in the coming years...

Basically, the cost of living and inflation are going to rise at 10%+ per year while salary does nada/zilch, if not worse. The salary is decent for a single person now, yeah. In 10-15 years, it's going to be miserable to pay for private schooling, etc, etc, for all that a family needs even on two such salaries unless you're at the top-tier pay range with fully assured hours. Even then, the budgeting PLUS savings for retirement while living in your own house in a fairly decent neighborhood? Well, if the OP doesn't mind not having hot water and all the frills of modern, middle-class life then it shouldn't be a problem, I guess, but in general it would be for most I'd think.

[vabeckele]

It is really quite miserable I'm afraid:

Local schools set up by the Vietnamese can be as low as 2 million VND a month (100 dollars). These are actually quite nice, but you will have a language and cultural barrier to contend with.

Local schools set up by foreign nationals are a lot more expensive and do not charge that much less than the 'international schools'; I would venture to say though, as they are smaller they are able to be a lot more attentive to the children.

I would stay away from ANY of the Singaporean international schools for children here; the stories I have heard...

It could be possible to find private local schools outside of Hanoi/HCMC that are reasonably priced, but it would take a good digging around to find them AND find employment.

Foreigners MUST jump through all of the legal hoops (and non-legal) to get a school up and running - this costs money - The Vietnamese do not have government bodies deciding on how to allocate funds for a brighter, more diverse, multicultural society - Quite rightly, the school fees charged to the parents can be justified by the cost of all the red tape, legal fees etc... and the need to live comfortably in Vietnam while providing these services.