Job Discussion Forums

LeopoldBloom · Joined: 08 Jul 2010 Posts: 57

I really hope that the many and majority who post negatively on this site and warn about schools do their due diligence and report to their appropriate embassy (in my case USA). We need help others avoid this.

I do not believe the current US embassy warning on TEFL jobs is even close to adequate. The bad experiences in China on eslcafe significantly outnumber even South Korea and considering that they hire more teachers there and pay a whole lot better-- it's a word to the wise. Embassy warnings are usually either too light or too strong; in the case of 'work in China' it's far too light, perhaps for political reasons but that is just a random guess.

Please read the job sites carefully. Of course I hope, for the sake of your well-being, that you don't go to teach in China; but if you do decide to go, have many outs and backups at the ready. Please listen

I have nothing against the Chinese. I do think the country needs to sort out workers' rights and related issues-- absolutely. But do your own research. Many Chinese people experience the same kinds of abuse but you shouldn't have to.

Bloom.

Miles Smiles · Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1294 Location: Heebee Jeebee

Unless the problem is a recurring, widespread scam, U.S. consulates won't address the problem that a teacher or teachers have with a school or a number of schools.

I know. At my nightmare job, I contacted the local consulate and got a "have a nice trip home" response and a reminder that the U.S. Department of State doesn't get involved in employer-employee relations. The U.S. consulate doesn't even get involved in legal scrapes unless the U.S. citizen faces the death penalty or if the FT has a well-placed relative somewhere in the U.S. government.

You can report the problem if it makes you feel better, but don't expect anything in the way of help.

katia04 · Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Posts: 18

Think about this before you just look at Dave's: People in bad jobs go online to complain, and if you're in a good job, you generally don't go on the forums because you have no reason (or less of one) to vent. ESLcafe sometimes is an outlet for people who are really frustrated, and that's okay, because everyone needs a way to deal with their frustrations and commiserate if they are really miserable. However, I believe that if you do your research, look at the legitimacy of a school, and contact people who work or have worked for the school, you are far less likely to get screwed over. Granted, there is always the chance of management turnover, and nine times out of ten you will work with at least one person you don't like, but the same is true with any job. If you're going to a language school, expect that summer will be crazy and you will work harder than normal. I find it very difficult to complain at my job because the local staff work much, much harder than we do, and we still have only 22 teaching hours a week - with planning hours, it still adds up to less than 40 hour weeks. Some people want easy jobs where they don't work hard, and again, that's okay, but know that you will usually be paid less. As for me, I love everyone I work with; it's a great team, and I enjoy work. Just exercise a little skepticism when reading some of these posts. They do urge caution, which is always a good policy, but don't automatically assume that all jobs in China are awful.

mike w · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:37 am Post subject:

Gringo Greg · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:30 am Post subject:

I thought this thread would be an honest critique of the warnings put online by others. Maybe I can provide that.

I ran TEFLWatch for two years handling teacher complaints. Heck, I still have a board up there for teacher complaints,
MOD EDIT

I stand with the teachers, but that said every warning needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt. When people warn about a school, it's because they have been wronged, in their eyes, and they need to vent. Without their typical support structure and being thousands of miles from home, they want vindication. Not to take away from that, but when people talk about their negative experiences teaching at a school, they highlight EVERY negative piece of their experience, ignore positive experiences, and avoid talking about their own part in the fiasco.

I can say with relative certainty that at least 2/3 of all school complaints you find online are at least partly exacerbated by the actions of the teachers themselves. This certainly doesn't excuse the actions of the school, most certainly schools engage in devious and demeaning behavior, but handled correctly, many teachers can mitigate these actions and can certainly control their reactions to the misbehavior.

My own personal opinion is that wronged teachers should vent and talk fully about how they have wronged, but prospective teachers need to understand that not everything said is true and even a great school can make their teachers feel like they have been treated like dirt from time to time.

NoBillyNO · Joined: 11 Jun 2012 Posts: 1762

LeopoldBloom · Joined: 08 Jul 2010 Posts: 57

Good to see the reflective and insightful replies.

I agree about the danger in generalizing too much. My feeling though is that the boards-- even if it's true that people usually only write and post when they're upset-- highlight China as one of more precarious places to consider an ESL experience. The fact that there are boards for other ESL destinations with roughly equal or greater numbers of FT's yet less or far less negativity and warnings on schools seems an excellent indicator of this; all other variables are basically equal.

This doesn't mean that some people who teach in China don't actually have good experiences in China. Some do. It just means buyer really beware out there in the middle kingdom.

Bloom.

Denim-Maniac · Joined: 31 Jan 2012 Posts: 1238

There are lots of sub-forums - The only ones I frequent are the ones I have EFL interest in, China, Poland and the UK. All three contain negative stuff ... in fairness I think its the nature of the beast, an unregulated industry. I dont think China is such a bad choice really, and probably offers a lot more than many places!

The Great Wall of Whiner · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing

Where there is smoke...

fat_chris · Joined: 10 Sep 2003 Posts: 3198 Location: Beijing

cfaulkner · Joined: 01 Jun 2012 Posts: 42

I've decided to pass on China, unless I get an offer of 3000 USD, including housing, plus a provided round trip ticket there from the USA. That's a minimum one should ask for, it seems. The risk is too great it wouldn't work out or you'd ripped off if these threads and posts are to be believed.

Maybe later, China.

MisterButtkins · Joined: 03 Oct 2009 Posts: 1221

I've been here 3 years and never had any problems. Don't work for sketchy outfits and you won't run into trouble. I think most people working here who have problems are bad at sniffing out sketchy outfits. Or they didn't do any research and took the first job they got offered.

Miles Smiles · Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1294 Location: Heebee Jeebee

Miles Smiles · Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1294 Location: Heebee Jeebee

cfaulkner · Joined: 01 Jun 2012 Posts: 42

Miles, thanks for that post. This is part of what I'm talking about when I say I don't want to go to China, at least not yet. It seems those who've been there for several years or even a couple of decades have turned into sort of content zombies. I'm not going to let that happen to me. I want to be as enthusiastic about a job in my 10th year as I am on my 10th day. I don't want to be job-hopping all over the place every year or even more than once a year because the present gig sucks and the only jobs available are those that nobody else wants, with my colleagues moving around all over as well. That's not for me. That's no way to have a 'career'. If I'll be moving every year and enduring and dodging rip offs and scams the entire time, I'm not going to go there.