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imjustme
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 28
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject: Vietnam Voted Best Place on Earth 2012! |
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It's been mooted on this forum that Vietnam is ESL's "best kept secret."
My own experience being extensive in East Asia but newbie in Vietnam (just arrived last week!), here goes:
The earnings-to-outgoings here in Vietnam cannot be bested. Prices are substantially lower than in China, across the board, but jobs will pay $15 to $25 an hour from day one (US dollars). I'm now looking at sharing a house--yes, a house--for which I will pay $225 a month, with full privacy, washing machine, bath, etc. Within easy walking distance is a supermarket supplying all my needs, while I pay under four dollars (US) for a restaurant meal, 50 cents for a pack of cigs, etc. Self-catering, I pay 50 cents US for a large baguette and one dollar for a tin of pate to go with it: if reduced to two dollars a day, I would not starve in Vietnam. That cannot be said of China, let alone Korea or Japan.
Local-born English teachers here really do speak English. In China, communicating with the local-borns could be difficult. Here, it's not. Gee, could that be because Chinese TV is 100% Chinese content, while Vietnamese TV delivers the world (NHK, Arirang, Deutsche Welle, Nat Geo, etc.)?
The French colonial heritage: thank God the French finally lost here, but Vietnamese queue up for baguettes and drink strong coffee. On a budget and liking Western food?: you will not starve here.
The climate? Ha, ha! Always bad in China. Rarely bad in Vietnam.
Legalities: here, perhaps uniquely, YOU OWN YOUR OWN VISA. Think about it. You want to quit a job, you just go. Korea and China both aim to make a slave of you. Thailand--no joy, from what I hear. Uniquely in my experience, I was granted a business visa to Vietnam, and while yes, I've got to look to renew or update it within three months, that's doable. WITHOUT the school I'm now working for. I am NOT their slave, ha ha!
Clincher #1: In China, I'd go to a restaurant, and the waitresses would stand round jeering "ting bu dong, ting bu dong!" My own boss even said "kan bu dong," refusing me a menu, that one occasion we went to lunch together, even though he knows I can read Chinese. What gives?
In Vietnam, in contrast: "What can I do for you, sir?" said in English.
Clincher #2: You go to work even for a state-run college, thinking it safe, and still the Chinese will rob you.
In Vietnam: too soon to tell, but I haven't been robbed yet.
I advise everyone reading, in summary, to give China a very wide berth and come south instead. You will NOT regret it!
I predict a rocking great future for Vietnam! On top of everything else, they use the Latin alphabet here! What's not to love about that?
In summary: if you want to enjoy life, there's Vietnam. Indonesia is also grand--lovely people there, though your pay will almost certainly be much lower. Thailand?: lots of smiles, ingenuous or otherwise. For experience of life, yes, Northeast Asia will certainly give you experience, and perhaps some earnings, but finally . . .
OMG!
IT'S VIETNAM! |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012 Posts: 744
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Vietnam, just like any country, has it's share of rude people and racism. As well as dishonest language centers that will try to rip you off
I've lived in both China and Vietnam, and I definitely prefer Vietnam, but it's more due to the laid back atmosphere than anything else.
I think Indonesia and Thailand would be great as well. |
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skarper
Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 477
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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I like it here too. But it is not paradise, just better than the alternatives I have and OK overall.
Beware the backlash when the honeymoon is over.... |
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Oh My God
Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 273
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Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:31 am Post subject: |
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skarper wrote: |
Beware the backlash when the honeymoon is over.... |
Judging from what you say about China, the "backlash" could be quite a ways out.
Welcome to our home! |
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isabel

Joined: 07 Mar 2003 Posts: 510 Location: God's green earth
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Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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I've been here for a while now, and so far it is my best posting abroad (10 years).
It is not perfect- even the westerners forget the concept of ethics. No complaints about the weather and the food. Baguettes and good coffee!
I hope you still enjoy it a in year. |
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bludevil96
Joined: 07 Aug 2006 Posts: 82
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:39 am Post subject: |
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I had a friend who was very similar to you in attitude, except that he was also a serviceman who did 2 tours here in the 60s. What a great attitude he had and took everything in stride. He just didn't let the little things bother him and just absolutely loved VN. I thought he was just going through a honeymoon with the country but after 2 yrs here, he was still the same guy. Unfortunately, he didn't take care of himself very well (pre-VN) and was too heavy for his height. Then, he had a heart attack and even though he lost a good amount of weight, it was too late to unclog his artery and died here as a result. Some people here might have met him. He passed on Dec 2010. God bless you Jay and thanks for making it better. RIP.
I sincerely hope that you're not going through a honeymoon and you're not trolling here just to tick some of these people off. My point is that, for some people, it's truly a heaven on earth here but it takes a change in attitude for a lot of us. Sometimes we need to remind ourselves that there are worse places to live and work in. I wish you the best of luck and hope that your positive attitude will rub off on people. |
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mark_in_saigon
Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 837
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:45 am Post subject: positive attitudes |
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Let's not ignore that these posts which some of us are extolling for displaying positive attitudes are also trashing their previous homes. The other thread which had a very similar message referred to China as 1,000 times worse than VN, or some statement like that, and was lauded as a very positive post. This one talks about China treating teachers as slaves. What is positive about that?
Seems to me, we feel good about a post if it agrees with our own biases, then it is positive. If it goes against our biases, it is negative.
Maybe we should scratch our heads a little harder and understand at a deeper level. What we really should be looking at is reality. Reality is what it is. If it is negative, it is just reality, you know? It does not mean we are picking a fight, and if it is positive it does not mean we are cheer leading.
The reality seems to me to be filled with good and bad. One of the paradoxes of living here is the good is far better than back home and the worse is far worse. The challenge is to take advantage of the good, bypass as much of the bad as possible, and accept that which you cannot bypass. Based on how long westerners stay, it seems that for a lot of them, the bad outweighs the good. Maybe they are not able to access enough of the good, or some of the rewards do not fit their profiles so the big reward which is there for many of us is not there to counteract the bad.
I am very happy here, it works out very well for me, but I would never try to talk someone into coming over, and most of the folks I do see who turn up seem to change their plans and disappear rather quickly. Not all, but most. Not a negative observation, not positive either, just what seems to me to be a reflection of reality. |
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inhanoi
Joined: 22 Oct 2011 Posts: 165
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:18 am Post subject: |
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Reality is overdone. |
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snollygoster
Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 478
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:55 am Post subject: Buddha said |
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A quote from a very famous philosopher:
"See things as they really are" |
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The Mad Hatter
Joined: 16 May 2010 Posts: 165
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Buddha said |
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snollygoster wrote: |
A quote from a very famous philosopher:
"See things as they really are" |
Bet you said that Snolly.
You're a legend!
Snolly rocks........ definately! |
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inhanoi
Joined: 22 Oct 2011 Posts: 165
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Meaningless conversations with anonymous people who can create any character they want to be....... That's reality? |
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1st Sgt Welsh

Joined: 13 Dec 2010 Posts: 946 Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Buddha said |
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snollygoster wrote: |
A quote from a very famous philosopher:
"See things as they really are" |
I suppose that's as good an explanation of what constitutes genuine wisdom as any. However, when we are discussing what is 'reality', I think we need to look closely at the source and acknowledge that, whilst something might not be 'true' in of itself, it is 'true' for certain people.
I'll give an example of something I'm sure we are all too familiar with considering that we live in Southeast Asia. Imagine some middle-aged, bald, obese, socially inept Westerner with an extremely attractive, young Asian girlfriend. In his mind, she is drawn to him because she loves him and because she thinks the local guys are lazy, immature, unfaithful, unromantic etc. He believes this because: a) he really wants to and b) this is what she has told him. The financial aspect of the relationship, as far he can see, is of very little consequence and, true or not, this is his 'reality'.
MOD EDIT
I'd be the last person to suggest that all opinions are equally valid and if someone makes an inaccurate claim here, by all means, they should be called on it. Nonetheless, I do sometimes think there is a tendency on internet forums, including this one, to be a little bit quick to belittle the sincerity of other posters who may have controversial opinions that others disagree with. |
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scuba066
Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Posts: 34
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmmm, I am a middle-aged, bald, obese, socially inept Westerner. Vietnam is sounding kinda nice!  |
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snollygoster
Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 478
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:08 am Post subject: QUOTE |
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Thanks mad hatter.
The quote is by the Buddha, (as headlined if you cared to look instead of jumping up to rubbish me blindly as you always seem to do)-not me.
I'm too busy feeding my obese, bald inept body with my wifes good food as she considers the financial gain of hanging out with me compared to being married to one of the local lads. |
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1st Sgt Welsh

Joined: 13 Dec 2010 Posts: 946 Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:34 am Post subject: |
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scuba066 wrote: |
Hmmmm, I am a middle-aged, bald, obese, socially inept Westerner. Vietnam is sounding kinda nice!  |
Yeah, come on over . However, it's not so much a 'Vietnam thing' and it's pretty common throughout Southeast Asia, especially, IMHO, Thailand and the Philippines. It also goes on quite a bit, from what I hear, in China. In short, it's a 'reality' and if you have spent a bit of time in these parts, chances are you have seen it more than once and I just used it as a general example to illustrate the point I was making.
Maybe I should have picked something else and, personally, I could care less who consenting adults choose to spend their time with. It's none of my business and, besides, I'm the last person who should be giving relationship advice .
Anyway I meant no offence and if certain people wish to take my example personally then I can't help that and that's not how my comment was intended. However, having said that, I can understand how people in relationships with a partner where there exists a fairly substantial age difference might be fed up with the stereo type. I certainly wasn't inferring that that my example is accurate in a 100% cases and if it doesn't apply to someone then that's great and good luck! However, I'm sure we can all agree, the example does often ring true and I've heard plenty of horror stories of besotted, delusional Westerners being literally taken to the cleaners by their local girlfriends . |
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