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IvanaShaanxi
Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 100
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 Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:36 pm Post subject: Working on an F visa |
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| As the situation is growing more serious for non-native teachers in China, many of them decide to work on F visas. Some persons assured me that it is safe to work on it at least for the first six months. Do you know anything about it? |
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samhouston
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 418
Location: LA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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If the situation was getting "more serious," seems to me there would be fewer teachers working on F visas, not more.
And it all depends on the timing. Cops can bust your school your first week there, or you might never have a run-in with the law for years. Probably better to play it safe and get the proper paperwork.
Last edited by samhouston on Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Working on an F visa |
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| IvanaShaanxi wrote: |
| As the situation is growing more serious for non-native teachers in China, many of them decide to work on F visas. Some persons assured me that it is safe to work on it at least for the first six months. Do you know anything about it? |
Can you cite a source for this information? |
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roadwalker
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Just remember that as far as the government goes, the teacher is responsible for any penalties for working without proper authorization. So the school may or may not suffer after being caught with unauthorized teachers, but that has nothing to do with the teacher being fined, deported or whatever. "They told me it was okay!" is not a defense to a large fine. Both the school and the teacher assume risk in such a situation. A teacher shouldn't assume that risk if the reward isn't worth it. Any teacher with the proper qualifications to teach in China (Bachelors degree; two years experience teaching; anglo passport) would be foolish to accept such risk. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| As the situation is growing more serious for non-native teachers in China, many of them decide to work on F visas. Some persons assured me that it is safe to work on it at least for the first six months. Do you know anything about it? |
Been serious for all foreigners as the 100 days of the foreigner crackdown started with the vid of the English tourist trying to assault that girl on a planter outside a subway. Schools in Beijing have been investigated and new FEC's/RP's have been refused. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| NoBillyNO wrote: |
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| As the situation is growing more serious for non-native teachers in China, many of them decide to work on F visas. Some persons assured me that it is safe to work on it at least for the first six months. Do you know anything about it? |
Been serious for all foreigners as the 100 days of the foreigner crackdown started with the vid of the English tourist trying to assault that girl on a planter outside a subway. Schools in Beijing have been investigated and new FEC's/RP's have been refused. |
Can you cite your source of information? |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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Miles Smiles, where are you located. This has been a hot topic for some time. I am surprised you even had to ask for sources. A Google search will yield many.
http://shanghaiist.com/2012/05/15/beijing_begins_100-day_crackdown_on.php
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The campaign is scheduled to run from May 15 to the end of August, said a spokesman with the Beijing Municipal Public Security Bureau.
Police will comb communities believed to have large numbers of such aliens and mobilize the public to report them, as well as tighten reviews of visa applications, he promised.
Official data shows that Beijing sees nearly 200,000 foreigners every day, including 120,000 inhabitants. Police records reveal that foreigners without income, a permanent abode and a job are more likely to commit illegal acts in the city. |
This is just one of many articles. I have known several affected by this crackdown and a few that have had to leave.
The film of the assault was all over YouKu and discussed at length on many Chinese boards. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Another one for you Miles:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/24/world/asia/china-foreigners/index.html
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Beijing (CNN) -- At just after midnight on Saturday, in a bar down an old lane in Beijing, the band suddenly stops playing. Grabbing the microphone, the manager tells everyone to remain in the venue; the police are outside threatening to escort to the nearest police station any foreigner not carrying valid documents. The atmosphere instantly sours.
This is just one of many incidents that have occurred in Beijing over the weekend following last week's launch of a 100-day campaign to "clean out" non-Chinese living or working illegally in the city. Until the end of August, all foreigners are expected to always have on them a valid passport, visa and resident permit, as stipulated by an announcement on Peaceful Beijing, the official Beijing Public Security Bureau account on popular Chinese micro-blogging site Sina Weibo.
If not, they will face repercussions, which range from fines to police detention and deportation.
A number for a hotline locals can call to report suspicious foreigners was also included in the announcement. Since then, the police presence in the main expat and student areas of the city has noticeably increased, households and companies have been spot checked, and queues at local police stations to register residency are large.
The new prickliness could be a sign the government is feeling under pressure from its own population.
Lars Laaman, Professor of Chinese History
Lin Song, media officer of the Exit-Entry Administration Department under the Beijing Municipal Public Security Bureau, was not available to immediately comment when asked about the crackdown. However, last week in an editorial in the Global Times, he remarked: "Some foreigners do not know Chinese laws well, and they might feel strange being randomly questioned by the police, but it is necessary to improve their legal awareness and make sure they stick to Chinese regulations."
Beijing police announced on Thursday that the city's friendly attitude toward foreigners has not changed. "Beijing will stick to the policy of reform and opening up, and we sincerely welcome foreign friends to work and live in Beijing," a spokesman told the state-run Xinhua news agency, adding that foreigners' legitimate rights will be protected.
But the crackdown has left a bitter taste in the mouths of many, not least those who have resided in the city for years and see it as home. Media worker Jacob Trent was pulled off his bike by the police on Saturday and demanded to produce his papers. "I have been living here for a decade and yet I still get treated like -- and sometimes called -- a foreign barbarian," lamented the American, who speaks perfect Mandarin and is engaged to a Chinese girl.
Another longtime expat, David Park, was equally distressed. "I have noticed a change in how I am treated. It has gone from curiosity to hostility," commented Park. The 27-year-old, an employee at a renewable energy firm, has been contemplating a move back to England. These events will make his decision easier, he said.
Park was not the only person expressing a desire to leave in the wake of tensions. Mia Bate, an African-American doing an internship, has no intention to renew her visa once it expires in September. "I never used to notice people looking at me on the streets," she said. "Now I do and it makes me feel really uncomfortable."
The campaign comes amid a heated online debate about the behavior of foreigners in China. The most noticeable example has been the uploading of a video onto the Chinese video sharing site Youku of a foreign man sexually assaulting a Chinese woman in Beijing. The video attracted more than 11 million views and 80,000 comments to date. Beijing police revealed the foreigner in the video to be a Briton on a tourist visa.
I have noticed a change in how I am treated. It has gone from curiosity to hostility.
David Park, UK expat
Police deny the incidents are related, but in the minds of both foreigners and Chinese they are. Prominent host on Chinese Central Television, Yang Rui, posted on Sina Weibo that Beijing must clean out its "foreign trash" to "protect innocent girls." According to Yang, they must "cut off the foreign snake heads."
Similar rhetoric has been voiced by locals offline. When Beijing resident Mandy Zhang's mother caught wind of the video, she called her 26-year-old daughter and asked her not to visit places that foreigners frequent. For both mother and daughter, the visa crackdown might not be an ideal solution, but it is necessary.
"Police cannot tell who is good or not. Some foreign men come here with the wrong intentions," Zhang said, adding: "We treat Westerners too well and this needs to change."
According to statistics provided by the city government, Beijing is home to about 120,000 foreigners. Most have arrived during the past decade, attracted by a booming economy and a visa policy that has been relatively relaxed. Crackdowns on this scale are very rare, with the last noticeable one being in the lead up to the 2008 Beijing Olympics.
Lars Laaman, a professor of Chinese history at London's SOAS, who has lived in the capital on and off since the 1980s, says these incidents only occur when the government is feeling uneasy," he commented, alluding to events that have gripped the nation over the past few months such as the dramatic fall from power of Chongqing party chief Bo Xilai.
Whatever the cause, as China's economy continues to grow, its foreign population will likely rise too. Finding a workable solution to the visa situation will become increasingly important. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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One more at my fingertips.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/03/world/asia/china-foreigner-crackdown-florcruz/index.html
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Beijing (CNN) -- "Does this mean I must now carry my passport everyday?" my wife Ana wondered aloud with a mix of bemusement and exasperation.
She was reacting to news reports that Beijing had started a 100-day campaign to "clean out" expatriates illegally living or working in the Chinese capital.
Until the end of August the Beijing Public Security Bureau has decreed that all resident foreigners are expected to show their passports for "spot checks" of visas and resident permits.
Hinting at stern measures for violators, a campaign poster features an image of a giant fist.
Police have conducted a sweep of communities where expatriates frequently congregate, like the university belt and the Sanlitun district of the city, which boasts an eclectic array of shops, restaurants and bars.
Chinese using Web for political satire
But finding violators may not be easy. There are almost 200,000 foreign residents in Beijing on short-term or long-term visas, according to the Beijing Morning Post, which quotes police sources.
Activist case exposes China crackdown
Turmoil and intrigue bubble in China
Mood darkens amid crackdown on 'illegal foreigners'
The campaign has enlisted the help of the Chinese public, who can call a telephone hotline to report "suspicious foreigners." Violators will be fined, detained or even deported.
However, the crackdown has made the expat community in Beijing uneasy, with many wondering why the authorities have decided to take action now.
China watchers wonder whether this is simply a preemptive measure to ensure security and stability months before the Communist Party hold its once-a-decade leadership transition later this year. A similar sweep was conducted several months before Beijing hosted the 2008 Summer Olympics.
Others see the high profile campaign as yet another hint of the xenophobic tendencies in the "Middle Kingdom."
Days before the police campaign commenced, shocking videos purportedly showing a British national sexually abusing a Chinese woman went viral on cyberspace. It prompted an avalanche of angry posts on social-networking sites.
Soon after the campaign was announced, Chinese TV anchor Yang Rui poured gasoline onto the fire when he posted scornful comments on his microblog calling for the expulsion of "foreign scum."
Some observers say China has good reason to go after law-breaking foreigners. "The crackdown makes sense in the light of the large number of illegal migrants that have made it into China, some of whom may have been involved in illegal or violent activities," said David Zweig, a professor at Hong Kong University's Department of Science and Technology.
But he said foreigners should be treated fairly and equally, according to law.
Crucially, the crackdown seems to be popular with many ordinary Chinese.
"Of course we should send home those foreigners who have entered illegally, just as we Chinese won't be allowed in other countries without legal documents," one Beijing resident told CNN.
"To be a strong nation, you need not just a good economy but also strong diplomatic policies," said another. "That shows a nation's self-respect and dignity."
China as a big nation should get tougher. We've been too soft for too long.
Beijing resident
Another resident was more blunt: "China as a big nation should get tougher. We've been too soft for too long."
As China's economic and military might grow, the people's pride and nationalistic feelings rise.
There's nothing wrong with promoting patriotism, experts say, but they warn against chauvinism. "The Chinese have to be careful about underlying chauvinism which can lead them to behave inappropriately towards foreigners in the country, and in their foreign policy," said Zweig.
During the last century, China experienced how nationalism led to xenophobia during the Boxer Rebellion in the early 1900s -- when groups of peasants banded together to rid the country of foreign influences -- and the Cultural Revolution (1966-76), when Mao Zedong attempted to reassert revolutionary values in China by purging what he described as bourgeois influences.
No one wants to experience xenophobia. I have seen how ugly it can be.
Like most foreigners who lived in China in the 1970s, I saw a closed, xenophobic society riddled with ingrained racial stereotypes. Foreigners in Beijing were virtually quarantined.
While we enjoyed special privileges, such as access to special "friendship stores", train compartments, hospital wards and beach resorts, we were cut off from spontaneous contact with ordinary people. Diplomats and journalists were segregated in gated "foreigners' compounds", which we use to call foreign ghettos.
Local residents resented such special treatment. They often targeted foreigners with scorn and disdain. Foreigners were disparagingly referred "waiguo guizi" (foreign devils).
Although infrequent, I do remember an anti-foreign backlash that led to occasional altercations and even rioting.
To be sure, China has changed significantly since Deng Xiaoping launched his market reform and open-door policies in 1978. Over the years it has gradually integrated into the global village through diplomacy, trade, tourism, academic exchanges and the media.
But some expatriates in Beijing still detect anti-foreign tendencies. "I find it difficult to understand why resentment is aimed at foreigners in general rather than at those who break the law or behave badly, regardless of nationality," said one.
"There is definitely an issue of Chinese having stereotypical views on foreigners, and a very clear us-versus-them attitude," said another. Neither person wished to be identified.
China scholars believe many Chinese still harbor racist tendencies and lack the open-minded tradition of self-reflection when they feel or express such views. "This lack of self-reflection," Zweig opined, "allows for anti-foreignism to lurk under the surface."
That partly explains why, in its long and checkered history, China has capriciously swung from a sentimental love-affair with things foreign to angry rejection -- and back again.
Is xenophobia rearing its head again?
"This is not xenophobia," a recent China Daily editorial stated. "It is people's desire to live in a civilized society. Our government is under an obligation to make sure citizens live in a law-abiding country. The ongoing action against illegal immigration in no way compromises our hospitality to foreign guests."
That is the kind of reassurance that expatriates in China badly need. |
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mike w
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Let's just remember that this crackdown was aimed at foreigners who were working illegally in Beijing. i.e. wrong/no visa, no RP, no FEC.
I know of one or two who have had to return home, or do a super quick visa run to HK.
I don't know of, or have heard of anyone who is employed legally by a school/company licensed to employ foreigners, with the correct documentation (visa /RP/FEC/ etc.) who has had any problems with their status, or who has had any problems renewing their RP/FEC during this period. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:44 am Post subject: |
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A news release announcing a crackdown and a news release reporting actual crackdowns with numbers, statistics, country of origin, deportation, etc is quite different from announcements of impending or planned crackdowns.
Sort of like the tax on foreign teachers last year. Not everyone has been hit. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:59 am Post subject: |
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Mike W is right as far as I know this crackdown was aimed at illegal foreigners although Chinese TV anchor Yang Rui did make some statments that seems to be aimed at inciting nationalism.
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| A news release announcing a crackdown and a news release reporting actual crackdowns with numbers, statistics, country of origin, deportation, etc is quite different from announcements of impending or planned crackdowns. |
I would doubt that that information is made available to foreign reporters but I can tell you that Expats in Beijing were wary of this crackdown and there were fines and deportations. I renewed my FEC and RP during this period without any problem and prior to that in March converted an L visa to a RP. I would add that I had a legal FEC/RP prior and lost a passport while out of the country (Spring Festival) and could only return on a L visa. I did have to start over with a complete physical, police report and the whole "9 yards". The point is the legal method is the only method anyone should take at this time.
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| Sort of like the tax on foreign teachers last year. Not everyone has been hit. |
Not sure what this has to do with crackdowns but as a social program is implemented in stages it is not unusual for different provenances to have different start dates. As it is retroactive, the government can always play catch up but it is sure that this will become the norm in some form or other. |
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Mr. English
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 298
Location: Nakuru, Kenya
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| As to Guangzhou, crackdown? What crackdown? Schools being raided is nothing new; it's just getting a little more publicity due to the 'War on Illegals'. Just like government officials the world over, Chinese government officials need to prove once in a while that they actually do something besides collect a paycheck every month. After the 100 days the importance of the war will fade. |
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