Job Discussion Forums

[mengli]

I interviewed with an employer (I'll call them Zhang) the other day. We talked for 2 hours. She actually cared if I would be a good teacher or not, which gave me a lot of respect for her and her company; she made me run through hypothetical lesson plans and lots of hypothetical classroom scenarios. She asked me about my education, experience, etc., which was unlike most interviews I've had in which they just tell me how beautiful the school&city are.

I just graduated and this is will be my first job in China. I've been offered a lot of contracts because this isn't the first job I've applied for. So far, all the contracts have been very advantageous for the employer and not for me. All of them had lots of stipulations that differed from what they said in our talking.

So far, I've trusted Zhang a lot and we've spoken quite a lot. However, she sent me a sample contract. I read the sample contract and it is very reasonable. She's answered all of my questions about work, housing, etc. She will have an the official contract ready when I get there and we can talk about it more then.

Obviously I am somewhat suspicious. Simultaneously, I really like and want this job (if it is indeed what they've been telling me it is) and I trust Zhang but am I just being naive?? I have read everything I can about others' experiences with Chinese contracts and it seems to me like contracts rarely represent how good or bad a job will be; like you could have a great contract but your job ends up sucking or you have a bad contract but everything is rosy in the end. Plus it seems like a lot of people go to China and then are given new contracts anyway? So my questions are:

1. Should I trust Zhang since she hasn't offered a legitimate contract for now?
2. Since the sample contract was fine and I talked about the points with Zhang and she assured me I will still have these things in my job when I get to China, should I even worry??

I would have posted in the contract sticky but I think it's locked.

[7969]

Here's how I see it. The contract's just a piece of paper. What will really matter to you is your work/living environment and how you get along with your new boss. If your apartment and the city you're located in are livable, if the salary is decent for the amount of work you're doing, and if the students aren't too bad you've got little to worry about. The thing is you won't know a lot of this till you actually get there. If it all (mostly) works out in your favour, then you made the right choice and your situation should get better if you choose to stay on for a second or third year. But if it all goes pear-shaped and you really can't deal with whatever has gone wrong, then just make sure you have an out - which usually means have enough money to either get home again or tide you over till you find a new job. Ultimately you have to take a leap of faith at some point and just follow your instinct. If you feel good about this job, then go for it.

One thing to keep in mind: if you've never been to China before then count on some things going wrong. It usually takes a year or two and more than one job before you can anticipate potential problems and before you find ways to prevent these things from happening. Getting screwed over in some way, shape, or form at least once is almost par for the course everywhere in the ESL world. My first job in China was OK but there were unexpected events that I hadn't anticipated and I learned from them. Nine years later I'm still here and enjoying life.

[TexasHighway]

You might want to ask your employer why they don't offer you a contract. Are they still considering other applicants? I wouldn't be too concerned over a piece of paper though. Even if it looks great, there is no guarantee it will be enforced to your advantage. Remember, we are on their turf and they have home field advantage. You may want to ask for email addresseses of some current and former foreign teachers there. They should give you some indication about how it is to live and work there. Even then, you should be cautious. After all, I doubt if they will put you in touch with disgruntled and complaining teachers. I don't think you are being naive and the first job, in particular, takes a big leap of faith. But I think you are taking the proper precautions. From what you said, it looks like a good deal and I hope it works out for you.

[rogerwilco]

The only person that you can totally trust is yourself.

Contracts, especially with foreigners, have very little value in China.
If your boss decides to not follow the contract there is very little that you can do other than refuse to give classes.

It really does all depend upon the integrity of your bosses and your relationship with them.

You should always have a source of money to be able to leave a school at any time. Having options is your best defense.

[twilothunder]

[xiguagua]

When I came here I just had the assurance of some guy I met on the internet that he'd get me a job. Granted I did as much research as I could so I was confident I wouldn't get screwed, there's still that voice in your head reminding you that you're in a country you don't know, and you're trusting some guy you met on the internet when you barely even trust your best friend.

I came here with enough money to immediately fly back if I needed to. That was my safety net and I understand not everyone has the financial means to do that. (Not like i'm rich or anything.) I think one should use their judgement and do loads of research. Talk to teachers at your prospective job, talk to teachers just living in China, get as much info as you can and you'll be much more confident.

[Miles Smiles]

[rogerwilco]

[rogerwilco]

n/m

[NoBillyNO]

I work for a British University and I have the same feeling as the poster above. They seem to have little regard for contracts or labor law.

[mengli]

Thanks for replying everyone. Most of you said things pretty much along the same vein of thought. It gives me some reassurance over this issue.

Since this is my first time going over, I already lowered my standards quite a bit. I definitely am not expecting the world. Even with low expectations, from the talking I've done with two of the contacts, this job and the employers sound reasonable, especially if you maintain good relations with the employers. And that matches what others said about China job stability being determined by how well you've gotten along with the employer. I think I will be safe in this respect.

[mengli]

[Lobster]

I was totally confident. That turned out to be a huge mistake.

RED

[kungfuman]

Trust No One. Regardless of their race. A foreigner in a position of authority is just as willing to F@$k you as is a Chinese person.

Never believe what anyone tells you.

Follow these rules and you can minimize any damage heading your way.

[ecubyrd]