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jcoral128
Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: No need for a Z-visa? I'm skeptical |
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I'm on the verge of accepting a job to lead trips in an outdoor school in Shenzhen that will last from October-November. My plan is to then look for a job at a university teaching ESL for the second semester (beginning in February and I may leave the country for a bit in between).
The outdoor school says I only need a tourist visa to go with them for the 1.5 months I'm there. But if I'm planning on staying in China and teaching ESL later, should I just go ahead and spring for a Z-visa now (instead of after I'm done with my time at the outdoor school)?
Additionally, I was planning to get my TEFL certificate in China once I got there, but this outdoor school job came up out of the blue. Do people think it makes sense for me to get a TEFL certification while I'm in the US (during September before I leave) instead of waiting until I get to China? I think the answer is yes (especially since I'm thinking that will make me more attractive to universities if I'm looking for university jobs throughout September from the US), but I just wanted to get some feedback.
Thanks everyone. |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:18 am Post subject: |
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If you don't mind seeing the inside of a Chinese prison then you don't need a Z Visa.
Once the police stop in and find you are not legal well, the school will still be there the next day but you wont. |
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Miajiayou
Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 283
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:16 am Post subject: |
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You are absolutely not allowed to work on a tourist visa. That is why summer work can be really dodgy. Yeah, there is a good chance you won't get caught, but talk about being at the total mercy of your school. Contracts don't mean much here anyway, I imagine they mean nothing when you are not even working legally.
I would be careful about getting a TEFL certificate here, as well. I signed up for a course when I first came, in 2007, and as soon as they had my deposit the BS started. The cost of the course went up, the cost of housing went up. The dates got a little screwy. I ended up forfeiting my deposit and just accepting a job with a small public college. The students and staff were so great, and I just used books and internet resources to give myself a crash course in ESL.
There are really only two courses I would go through now: the absolute cheapest online one (if I just had to have a verifiable piece of paper) or the CELTA.
Also, I wouldn't plan on spending a lot of time in September applying for jobs with a Feb start. Most people who do the hiring at universities are going to be absolutely slammed in September and won't even be thinking about hiring for the next term.
You seem to be making this much more complicated than it needs to be. Coming over here for a month and a half just to work illegally, then spending four months in limbo, worrying about a TEFL certificate.... just apply for jobs whenever you want to start working and come over when you have a Z visa in your passport. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| I second the above. |
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jcoral128
Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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I thought I might be making it more complicated (and that's why I was skeptical about the school's tourist visa claim). Thanks. I'm going to go ahead and get a Z-visa (even though the outdoor school says it's not required), get my TEFL in the US and then start looking for university jobs at some point once I'm in China.
Thanks guys, it's much appreciated�and if you have any more feedback definitely let me know. |
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Voldermort
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 597
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| jcoral128 wrote: |
I thought I might be making it more complicated (and that's why I was skeptical about the school's tourist visa claim). Thanks. I'm going to go ahead and get a Z-visa (even though the outdoor school says it's not required), get my TEFL in the US and then start looking for university jobs at some point once I'm in China.
Thanks guys, it's much appreciated�and if you have any more feedback definitely let me know. |
You can't JUST get a Z visa. You must first find and sign a contract with a school who will then give you an "Invitation letter" which is used to apply for a Z visa. Then you MAY have the added hassle of the medical tests and background checks. |
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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The outdoor school says I only need a tourist visa to go with them for the 1.5 months I'm there. |
First, what is an "outdoor school"? Are you actually a native English speaker? Sorry, I mean someone qualified.
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| Additionally, I was planning to get my TEFL certificate in China once I got there, but this outdoor school job came up out of the blue. |
Well, like Oh my god, gag me with a spoon. Maybe you need to have TEFL before going to China.
Like, that is kind of how it works? Narly, gag me with a spoon. You are qualified, and then you get the job.
Good luck NEWBIE. Yes, you'll learn. Sooner or enough. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, what IS an outdoor school? I was afraid to ask. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| Miles Smiles wrote: |
| Yeah, what IS an outdoor school? I was afraid to ask. |
He must be destined to work in a place like this:
Chinese Students Attend School in a Cave
I think working here would be cool . . . |
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5h09un
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| chinatimes wrote: |
Well, like Oh my god, gag me with a spoon. Maybe you need to have TEFL before going to China.
Like, that is kind of how it works? Narly, gag me with a spoon. You are qualified, and then you get the job.
Good luck NEWBIE. Yes, you'll learn. Sooner or enough. |
you don't need to have a TEFL certificate before finding legal work here. how's that glass house of yours holding up? |
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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| you don't need to have a TEFL certificate before finding legal work here. how's that glass house of yours holding up? |
Right, but if you don't have it and the school requires it, then what would you do?
1. invitation letter
2. process Z visa
3. enter China
4. get TEFL
5. start working at the school that sent you the invitation letter
That's not the usual way I see teachers do it. Instead, they:
1. get TEFL
2. invitation letter
3. process Z visa
4. enter China
5. start working (immediately) at the school that sent you the invitation letter
If you can find a school to wait, great, but I haven't had any luck that way. Get the TEFL first if it matters.
(To 5h09un: My earlier reply was based on the premise someone found a school and they needed TEFL qualifications, not that they were going to look for any possible job and then get a Z visa. Source: "Additionally, I was planning to get my TEFL certificate in China once I got there, but this outdoor school job came up out of the blue." one specific school, not just any) |
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jcoral128
Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Outdoor school: A school that takes kids on courses and trips (hiking, sea kayaking, etc., etc.) for outdoor education. Think Outward Bound, which leads kids on trips for similar reasons. It's not a TEFL job.
However, what I want to do is teach ESL after that gig is up. Based on what I've heard, it sounds like the best course of action is to get a TEFL certificate, then look for jobs. I don't know if I'll be able to get a work visa through the outdoor school, but it's worth finding out, which was the premise of my first question (espcially if I want to get an ESL job in future months).
And to chinatimes�I'm trying to do as much research as I can. Yup, I'm kind of a newbie, but I'm hoping to learn as much as I can so that I no longer have that status. That includes info from Dave's ESL Cafe but certainly isn't limited to info I get from there. Thanks for the help. |
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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| However, what I want to do is teach ESL after that gig is up. |
Every job/gig/contract signed is teaching ESL. I don't see where you are going.
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| it sounds like the best course of action is to get a TEFL certificate |
Best course of action is to sign a 1 year contract and work/earn 1 year, how about them apples bumpkadillies?
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| I don't know if I'll be able to get a work visa through the outdoor school |
Try the "indoor school", you won't get wet on rainy days. You won't be late on snowy days, rah rah shish koom bah!!!
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| I'm trying to do as much research as I can. |
A modicum of research will land you a 1 year contract. None of this outdoors crap. Please. Oh, would you look at that? Just look at that. |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| chinatimes wrote: |
Every job/gig/contract signed is teaching ESL. |
Not true. My last 4 jobs were NOT teaching esl or English. |
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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| kungfuman wrote: |
| chinatimes wrote: |
Every job/gig/contract signed is teaching ESL. |
Not true. My last 4 jobs were NOT teaching esl or English. |
Read the sentence in context:
1. We are on an ESL forum site
2. The person is talking about an "outdoor school"
Clearly they aren't looking for work elsewhere.
My statement wasn't meant to be taken literally for everyone on this planet.
If you come to China and work at a school, there is a high probability you will be a teacher, not an office worker. That's what I meant. |
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