Job Discussion Forums

[Clancy]

Yes there are many L2 English speakers teaching EFL in China. They are from such places as Nigeria, Cameroon, Phillippines, India, Packistan, Russia, Holland, Rumania, etc.

Their pronunciation is horrible. At a recent Shanghai EFL teaching conference there was a keynote speaker from India and no one could understand her. A presenter was from the Phillippines and no one could understand him.

So, has China decided pronunciation is not important?

A Shanghai student recently claimed that no Chinese man should get married until he owned a horse and cow. This brought the class to uncontrollable laughter.

Eventually he was asked to write this on the board. He wrote "house" and "car."

No, of course pronunciation is not important. Bring on the L2 speakers to teach L2. We need more of them not less. Tell that to Henan Province where Nigerians and Cameroonians are no longer welcome and people here on this forum are suggesting racism.

[anthyp]

Well you are just citing extreme examples here to prove your point. Your posts are always irresponsible, clancy, so it's no surprise here. I'm sure others will chime in with their horror stories as well. But you're missing the point. Plenty of L2 FEs make fine teachers. Plenty of native - speakers make terrible teachers. Like you, clancy. Restricting TEFL teaching in China to native speakers isn't going to improve the quality of education much. Don't try and simplify such a comlex issue through the use of isolated incidents to prove a point.

[Redfivestandingby]

I think it is crucial that Chinese learn to understand how other people speak English. Let's face it. Most Chinese will never go abroad to live in the native English speaking countries. If they get a good international job here they may end up working with someone from a non-native English speaking country.

So let them get used to it. It's also important for us NET's too.

Having said that I think it's important, regardless of where we come from, that we're able to understand the difference in pronunciation between 'cow' and 'car'. Funny.

[eion_padraig]

Without a doubt, jobs are given out too often on looks rather than ability in China (and certainly other places), but if the teacher does not speak in a way that is readily understandable to other N.E.T.s (I like that Redfivestandingby, and I haven't see it before) then there is a problem. Afterall, the students will hopefully be basing their pronunciation off the teachers as a model.

Redfive is completely correct in the fact they need to be able to understand L2 and L1 English speakers with less understandable pronunciation, but I don't agree that those people should be teachers. I speak with Shanghainese people all the time in Mandarin and often they have Shanghainese accents, but I don't hire them to teach me Mandarin. I find someone from the north to teach me Mandarin because their speech will be easier for Chinese from all different regions to understand.

I think the problem is that too often the Chinese people hiring make judgements on looks, rather than on other factors. Part of this may be that their own ability to differentiate accents is not very good. Secondly, they may be catering towards parents and their students desires. I've met Scottish and Irish folk that I've had lots of trouble understanding and I'm sure they are people from the American south that would be difficult for many other N.E.T.s to understand. So I think pretty clearly, race is not the deciding factor.

Eion

[hahahaha]

Clancy,
In this century and as far back as I can remember ,generalizing is the dumbest thing anyone should ever do.
To say that people from Nigeria ,Cameroon, Romania , Russia etc have horrible pronunciation tells us what a narrow thinking person you are. I wonder how much you do to help get our Chinese students sticking thier heads and thinking out of the boxes they have been confined in giving that you very much think like them .
And doubting the fact that an English Second language speaker can't speak and sound English is just telling us you are not doing your job here in China.

[Roger]

In my opinion, Clancy, you have just disqualified yourself as a serious debater in this forum: Filippinos and Nigerians speaking an English that - you: "NO ONE UNDERSTOOD... (sic!), - I won't believe ten percent of what you said! Why do Nigerians and Filippinos use English officially in their countries? Who understands them when they speak English publicly in their countries?
My biggest problem is the multitude of Chinese English techers and their botched pronunciation; here one is faced with totally irrational phenomena such as how an 'R' can become an 'I' as in 'divoice' instead of 'divorce'. Or why the syllables are all short although we have long ones and short ones in English (sleep versus slip). Not to mention the confusions between L and N, TH and S, and so on. Intonation is another extremely sore point.

[garbotara]

[Philolinguist]

I agree with both sides on this one. Prior to coming to Asia I was (am) a Spanish teacher even though it is not my first language. Having spent a number of years in Mexico and having studied the language through the master's level, I have been told on numerous occasions that I speak like an educated native speaker. Hence I think I'm eminently qualified to teach Spanish even though it isn't my first language.

That said, most of the English teachers, for whom English is not their first language, do not have such proficiency, be it in terms of their diction, accent or knowledge of many idiomatic expressions. In fact most of the ones with whom I've interacted don't have degrees in English, nor have they studied at English-first universities, and many have less than completely intelligible accents. However, many of them have much better grammar than native English speakers.

In my mind, employers should not even look at anyone who hasn't studied or obtained a degree at university. But evidently the market is dictating acceptance of less than qualified native and non-native speakers of English, so who am I to question the market. If the market tightens up, the less desirable English teachers will certainly be weeded out. Ultimately broad brush statements are not helpful and hiring should be done on a case by case basis.

[hahahaha]

Cameroonians and Nigerians are not welcome in Henan
Do you mean at your school?
I just turned down a job offer from Henan . Of all places in China I won't be caught dead in Henan.

[Clancy]

[Clancy]

[Clancy]

[Clancy]

[nolefan]

In support of Roger, I have been to the Philipines and I was able to understand and communicate with most of the locals!

I think you guys overlooked his main point which is that "the local chinese teachers are doing are a bigger concern than the Nigerians or other non traditional english speaking folks."

At the university where I teach, one of the local english teachers cannot put two words together to save his life.... I have some music majors that can speak better than he does (accent, grammar...the list goes on). Yet this bloke is teaching the students british litterature!!!! gimme a freaking break!!!

[batman]

in my experience, non-caucasian races can't pronounce english words properly. it is because they have deformed tongues. many people in korea are getting an operation that helps them speak better english. perhaps some people here should also have their tongues cut out.