Job Discussion Forums

[Kanada_Goose]

Greetings all...

I am a newbie to the forum, and a newbie to ESL....I am seeking some advice from the troops !

I am starting ESL teaching later this year after I obtain my credentials...and want to search the markets now to see where I will land on my feet. I am not sure what certification I will eventually obtain....I have been told CELTA or Trinity is the way to go....but I am wondering if this level of credentials is required in China...or can I go with a certification to a lesser extent (TESOL)...I realize an online diploma is pretty much uselelss....

Where in China is a newbie best suited for in every regard..?..job opportunities...living conditions....being that China is such a vast country with varying degrees of standards....where shouls a newbie focus thier job search..?..and expect to gain employment. I know that my questions are fairly broad....but any advice would be very welcome....

Thanks for reading my post !

Kanada Goose

[Non Sequitur]

Two comments:
Do you already have a degree and the ESL qualification will be additional?
The main hiring time for the public tertiary sector is about to start, for class commencement 1 Sept or thereabouts.
Does your timescale fit with this reality?
In my exp there are no good or bad areas apart from a couple of stinkers that a renowned for pollution.
Better to get two or three schools interested and then check them thoroughly.
I OPd a thread a few months ago on job offer checklist. Some good contributions there.
Best

[Kanada_Goose]

Yes, I have a degree....and several other certifications from my other career which may or may not be useful.

September will not work for me...I was thinking maybe towards the end of this year, early next year....after I get my certification in a celta or equivalent....(Is there only one time for recruiting...September ?).

I think the common thread I get from most people here...celta or same is the way to go.....anything less is really not going to assist you in getting a job...or if you are able to find one....it will be the bottom of the barrel for placement....

I would like to look at Shenzhen or maybe Shanghai....they seem appealing...but not knowing anything else.....if someone can offer some advice...that would be great...

[7969]

[Non Sequitur]

The period March to say June is the main hiring period for obvious reasons and that competition for staff is good for the job seeker.
There is a minor flurry again on December to start in the second semester after Chinese NY.
These comments are about the public colleges. Language schools hire all year round.
I would go with the CELTA as you seem to have time. Looks good on the CV but in practical terms I found an ESL qual was more about the confidence it gave me to perform in a situation which at first seems totally chaotic!
Positions in places like Shanghai are keenly sought after and this works against newbies. If you are into this for the longer term maybe see Shanghai as a later step.
Any reasonable size coastal city down to provincial level 3 from Dalian south would be good starting points for your career.
Get registered on a good teacher hiring website and watch the flow of positions as they come on stream over the next few weeks.

[dean_a_jones]

In terms of places to look, you might want to let us know what kind of place you would like to live in (big or small, lots of expats or few, touristy and international or more 'Chinese', somewhere central for easy weekend trips) what you would like to avoid (really hot or cold weather, pollution etc.). Do you want to learn the language and make friends with locals or would you rather live somewhere you can get by with minimal Chinese and where more people speak English?

Do you want to get a comfortable university job with lower hours and lower pay, and "ease" your way into things (not that it is necessarily that easy)? Did you want to find a lot of private students to tutor? Work at a language school or two, have a busy schedule and save some cash or pay off debts?

The more information you give along these lines, the easier it is to point you in the right direction. As noted, hiring season for public schools and universities starts around March and continues until positions are filled (the best go early, though often through word of mouth to those on the ground). As others have stated you can find a position in China without additional certification, though if you wanted to make a proper go of it and stay for a while, certification is worthwhile.

Browse these forums, especially from a year or so ago when it was last hiring season, and you will probably find the answers to pretty much all the basic questions an entry level teacher has, as they are asked all the time.

[Denim-Maniac]

^^^ strongly agree.

Location is pretty important, and considering climate, size of city, and access to ex-pat communities and things of personal interest are all big issues for me.

Second consider the type of work you want to do. It is what you'll be spending a lot of your time doing after all.

If you find a location that suits your interests (for me that means avoiding cities and harsh winters) and match that to the type of work you are happy doing - Kindy vs. University vs. Language schools, you can narrow your search down quite a lot, and hopefully find a position thats a good fit.

As already mentioned, if you go to language schools you can apply pretty much anytime.

[twilothunder]

Shenzhen/Shanghai/Beijing/Guangzhou.

You really need to start somewhere with home comforts easily available and a decent sized expat community.

I am sure you can SURVIVE anywhere else, but it might be a lonely and miserable year if you find yourself in a smaller city, in a job you hate, and very few friends to lean on apart from a few other foreign teachers from the same workplace. Significantly, these cities are well connected to the 'outside world' as well, making them easier to get home from, and easier for folks to come and visit you, if you're homesick.

[twilothunder]

Oh, and if you can put up with the harsh winters, I recommend Beijing. It's a little less sprawling than Shanghai, cheaper to entertain yourself there, and you'll learn 'better' Chinese than in Shanghai or Guangzhou.

I don't really know Shenzhen at all, so won't comment on the place more than I have already.

[Miles Smiles]

Many, many schools have a February-December hiring cycle. They're not all September-June. This situation can exist for numerous reasons, the most obvious of which is teachers frequently bugging out early because the job is the pitts.

I worked for a university that (like all schools) would hire year-round, but its one-year contracts mostly ran from February to December solely because at some point, teachers either took one-term contracts or they bugged out early. This was a good school with a great FAO. In this case, over the course of several years and several turkey FTs who left early, the school found itself on a February-December hiring cycle. It was actually a good school.

Schools would prefer September-June hiring cycles for several reasons, the first of which is a desire for continuity throughout the academic year, and to avoid the problem of hiring someone mid-academic year, then having the problem of either requiring him to move out of the apartment at his own expense or keeping him in the school apartment and having the attendant problems (security, utilities) that accompany having "unsupervised" FTs who consume a bazillion megawatts of energy and despoil every girl in China during the summer. (At least, that seems to be some schools' concerns).

Hiring occurs throughout the year in China. It's possible to get a job in the spring or in the fall. Your best bet is to shoot for fall, though. There's always that chance that the reason why there's an opening in a school at mid-academic year is that the school is cr@p (not that one has guarantees otherwise should he take a job in September).

[Kanada_Goose]

You've made a great point Dean_a_Jones....sorry....you're absolutely correct, my inquiries are vague...so...

I would prefer a bigger place than a smaller town/city...somewhere were I can escape for travel or get home quickly if need be...., I am not sure I need a total immersion into the Chinese culture...I would like to learn the language, but not 'forced' into it in as this way or no way...

Making some friends, and becoming acquainted with the language would be were I would be most comfortable...but having said that, I would like to ensure that there was an expate community to be able to communicate on my level, and make some friends along the way...

Schools and universities may have more attractive incentives...but I think working for a private school or language institute (McSchool ?) would be my best bet..simply...I am not sure exactly when I can bounce from my current career for a year, and I would assume (Although..not sure...), that hiring prospects would be easier as there would not be a set hiring period like a university or school...

I want to be able to at least break even with my salary....(duh..I guess..), but I am not expecting a huge salary....basically...my leave from my current career would be considered a self funded leave through this avenue.....so enough to enjoy a little, get by on my current savings...and not go into debt while being in country...(obviously..spending habits dictate that....but I am not extravagent and can live fairly modestly..).

Harsh winters....?..well...I am a Kanuck...so...I am used to frosty days and winters...not a big issue.....I am ex-miltary as well...so harsh conditions are not too much of a concern...but I do like comforts...as long as heat is mostly available...I should be able to get by..

I would like to reside in an area where some western comforts are available....having said that...I dont know much about what is available in China....for example...easy internet access....pubs......westernn tyle shopping.....not a must have....but a nice to have quality...

Thanks to all for the great advice....!!!....it certainly is giving me lots to think about....!!

Kanada Goose

[twilothunder]

If by Western style shopping, you mean Zara, H&M, McDonald's, Sony (OK, I know it's Japanese), Starbucks, Wal-mart and a few others, there are shopping malls containing these places in MANY smaller cities nowadays.

Internet access and 'Western-style' restaurants (think pizza with sweet bread and bad cheese, steaks so thin that the possibility of doing them medium-rare is non-existent, burgers and fries etc) are also easily found in most cities these days.

I think you have the right approach, wanting to ease yourself into China rather than be thrown in.

I started in Beijing (don't let anyone tell you it's impossible for a newbie to get a job there, it's just harder) before moving inland and seeking out opportunities in a lower ranked city. I think anyone needs to sample China-lite in one of the bigger cities (with proper bars and lots of friendly English speakers in easy reach) before deciding whether China is really for them or not.

[Denim-Maniac]

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=1005975&sid=d296f50da2e74c5f75a2007b719e1ea1#1005975

interesting thread there about someone in a college with huge classes and is having difficulties. Worth reading, and should be a pointer to follow. Keep thinking about the language schools rather than the public sector/uni/college route IMO.

You dont have to consider cities to get the lifestyle you want. The county Im in has a population of only 300,000...and the actual city far far less than that! Every restaurant has an English menu, we have pubs and bars and plenty of foreigners if thats you thing. We have two genuine Indian restaurants, and fast food joints and pizza etc. And its all cheaper than I think the same would be in Beijing etc.

Homemade cheeseburger with a beer for 28 RMB for example!

You might want to check out Yangshuo, which is where I am. Its China for dummies really as its so easy to live here. Language schools a-plenty too. Salaries do suck compared to the rest of China....but its worth it for me

[dean_a_jones]

Am I correct in understanding you only plan to come for a year? That seems to be what you are saying in your post.

If so, you might want to think about somewhere like Beijing. If you are not looking to save, want a mix of western comforts and Chinese culture, a place that is easy to travel to and from, lots of people to meet it is not a bad place to be.

It is a bit more expensive, and the winters are cold (although it is warm indoors, unlike central 'southern' cities that get really cold like Wuhan) and there is a lot of competition for jobs.

It is a bit like New York or London. Sure there are lots of other places that are worthwhile, but these are some of the most exciting places in the world to experience as they are so vast, busy and filled with opportunity and distractions.

If you are only here for a year, I think it would be a great city to properly explore (as opposed to just visit for a few days).

[sainthood]

TBH, I'd steer clear of BJ or SH as a place to live and work. Plenty of nearby cities that I'd say are more appropriate - Suzhou, Nanjing, WuXi, Hangzhou, etc etc etc... Not too cold (usually), and easier to get a job there. You can easily travel up to the big smoke if you need to, and there's enough of an expat community that you can connect up easily if you need to.

Kanada-Goose, if you're not aware of it, there is the 'north of the river/south of the river' idea here... north of the Yangtse they have central heating, south of the river they don't. Too bad the weather doesn't realise this

@Denim-maniac.... sheesh dude! Don't give him hopes!!! You're in Guilin... a SUPER tourist area... of course it's got all those things! That certainly isn't the norm for the rest of the country!

K-G again... if this is just a pause in your normal career for a bit of fun and interest, don't waste your money on CELTA... most employers won't even know what you're talking about. Really, just printing up your own 'certificate' would be accepted by most schools.