Job Discussion Forums

britishsummertime · Joined: 21 Aug 2011 Posts: 12

I have only just signed up to this forum, but the more I read the less I like what I am hearing. It seems to me that nobody has anything positive to say about any of the employers in Saudi Arabia. There are countless posts by newbies asking about such and such an employer, and most of the replies are negative in the extreme. Is it really like that? All of them are bad? Doesn't the money compensate in any way for empty promises re visas, holiday pay, change to hours etc. Is it worthwhile me considering going?

sheikh radlinrol · Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 1222 Location: Spain

Middle East Beast · Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 836 Location: Up a tree

Saudi Petrochemical Company in Jubail was a good employer when I was there, but that was a few years ago.

MEB Cool

Commenter · Joined: 03 Jul 2011 Posts: 20

In general, people who are happy don't go onto the internet to tell the world that they're happy, whereas people who are unhappy want the whole world to agree that they are justified in their unhappiness.

You'll find that most people in the world have a complaint or two about their employer. The difference here, is that when you combine it with living in an environment that certain people undoubtedly find alien and difficult, the problems become magnified in their eyes.

From everything that you read here, try to extract the facts from the hearsay, and you'll probably find that most of the issues that people complain about here can be avoided with some simple patience and a bit of wisdom.

Don't get me wrong, there are some employers that I personally would never want to work for, but I can confirm that not every single person in Saudi is unhappy with their employer.

johnslat · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:51 pm Post subject:

Dear britishsummertime,

The Institute of Public Administration was a fine employer for me during my time there.

Regards,
John

Middle East Beast · Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 836 Location: Up a tree

It's Scary! · Joined: 17 Apr 2011 Posts: 823

blackwellben · Joined: 06 Nov 2010 Posts: 121 Location: Saudi Arabia

Alimacg · Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:05 pm Post subject: Saudi in General

I have read a number of posts re Saudi...it appears (IMHO) that everyone complains about Saudi and/or Korea and/or......so where to work??
I met 5 teachers recently (IH Cape Town) ...all of whom are quite happy in Saudi....yes, culturally different, yes an adaptation...but if anyone can tell me where is "perfect" ....as a newbie - any advice? The Korean forum indicates that most teachers are done out of their bonus by being fired in the 11th month....Saudi? the students sound horrendous....China? the class numbers and split sessions are not fun....so "where to go'?
Thanks!!
Ali

davt · Joined: 07 Oct 2009 Posts: 18

The bottom line, which no one talks about, is that TESOL/TEFL is unregulated. It is considered a racket by some. It's a shame because there is so much potential in the TESOL/TFL field. Unless you're working in an accredited school or university and in a union you'll be having the wolves taking bites out of you. It's the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about because it makes people involved in TESOL/TEFL as "teachers" uncomfortable. It makes them really take a hard look at their career field and the overall shadiness of it.
Remember you are there for a job. not vacation, not sightseeing. You are there for work to put money on the table for yourself or your family. Unfortunately, the majority of schools see you as replaceable and your well being is not in their best interest. There are good employers, yes, but they are the minority.
The majority of schools in KSA could care less about you. If you do go, get as much info on the labor law as possible. read and prepare yourself. If you sign an employment contract in California for example, the contract is bound by law where it is contracted. This gets messy. Many employers in KSA, many of them Americans and Brits who hide behind locals, will try to mess with you. You need to be assertive, legal saavy and be prepared to defend your best interests. You wouldn't allow it in your home country so, why would you allow it anywhere else.

It's Scary! · Joined: 17 Apr 2011 Posts: 823

So, davt...should I take my M. Ed. in TESOL from a prestigious university and wipe my bum with it the next time I have a good vowel movement? Surprised

It's something that I worked for!

desertdawg · Joined: 14 Jun 2010 Posts: 206

It's very important to realise that in KSA and most other countries any contract signed before you arrive in the place of employment is not legally binding. The only one that is is the one signed when you arrive. Previous ones are just "samples". Again in most cases the only valid contract is one with a side by side translation in the language of where you are working.

In my long experience, contracts are largely meaningless. It is the terms and conditions which really count and employment law in your host country. And the basic integrity of your employer. Before accepting a job, you should be sure about what you will be getting in terms of pay and benefits and what is expected of you.

The problem in Saudi is that if an employer doesn't honour their side of the bargain, then it can be a lengthy and difficult process to get out. Recourse to the law in any country is a final option. In KSA it is extremely complicated to go to the labour courts and IMHO not woth the financial or emotional costs never mind the extreme amount of time it takes.

It's Scary! · Joined: 17 Apr 2011 Posts: 823

This, I believe, is due to choices that are made. I subcontracted for Boeing and Raytheon in my many years in the Kingdom which led to living on good to great compounds. The great compounds got suicide bombed in 2003. I wasn't there...but I lost 10 friends who still lived there.

It's all about choices...

It's what you make of it and the choices that you make!

blackwellben · Joined: 06 Nov 2010 Posts: 121 Location: Saudi Arabia

davt · Joined: 07 Oct 2009 Posts: 18

I never said having a Masters Degree in TESOL was useless. I never said that. An individual who has chosen to take teaching seriously and pursues the necessary credentials should be treated with respect. When I speak of regulation many of you know what I am talking about, but you respond with such facetiousness. Regulation of the schools and hiring agencies is what I mean. There is no oversight. No recourse if a teacher is cheated, abused, etc.
CELTA/DELTA as you said are "attempts" to make TESOL professional meaning it is not so professional. If you are not working for an accredited school or university you will more than likely be taken advantage of and or seen as replaceable.
As for the back packer thing, well, to each their own, but teaching is a profession not a jaunt. Many of these for profit schools could care less about education. over 90% of the owners and administration in these for profit schools have no background in education. ZERO. Do you think they understand or care for the teaching profession? The majority of teachers are at the mercy of the students where a bad review over how you teach grammar could land you out on the street. I have known too many people who have experienced this. Many times you won't get paid, or your contract will be treated like nothing. Is this professional?
You question my use of metaphor because maybe you are one of those teachers that talks talks and talks about himself or herself and never really teaches. One of those teachers that gives the students a "good time" and the illusion that they learned something. When in fact they learned nothing. I have seen it firsthand at the community college where ESL students score poorly on placement exams because they learned under some American or Brit who never taught them anything at a school they paid for that promised them everything, but you know "they had fun in class all the time".
I can say with pride that 90% of my students who came to the US to study at a university or community college took assessment exams and placed into college level English. I have letters from colleges congratulating me and that is how I came by my position at a community college. Can you say that?

And, when looking for a job, any job you have to look out for your interests. That's a fact. if you don't then it's your own fault. Working and earning a living to put food on the table for yourself or your family( if you have kids), is serious stuff. It's not a joke. I have a child and I don't play with money or work. Money is what keeps a roof over my child's head and food in the fridge.

Blackwellben sounds like someone who swallowed a theory book. Theory is theory and work is work. And, I must tell you as someone who holds a JD that your concept of a contract is way off. I was in labor law before becoming a teacher, so try again. A contract is not a prospect. A contract is a binding agreement and it holds legal force even if it is written on a napkin. And, the contract falls under the jurisdiction of where it was signed and went into effect.

Everyone needs to protect their interests and be fully knowledgeable in the labor laws of where they are working. Otherwise you get taken advantage of and abused. That's a fact. I never said it would get you a job. But don't let yourself be taken advantage of especially in this day and time.