Job Discussion Forums

[all-at-sea]

Hello to everybody here on the China forum. I've been lurking here for a while and, inspired by people's posts, I finally plucked up the courage to complete a long, long-delayed CELTA course. I already had an English major BA, so now I'm good to go. I've been applying for jobs from the UK.

I've been offered a public sector Oral English teaching position, going through a recruiter. I'm unsure about the etiquette of naming names, so I'll hang fire for the moment. Suffice to say that I've been asked by the recruiter to sign and fax them back the signature page of the pdf contract they emailed to me. They say it is required for the school's application for my work documents. My question - one of a thousand - is whether that is the normal procedure? I seem to recall reading that you shouldn't sign the contract until you arrive in China, and that the contract is then formally signed by yourself and the employer.

(The contract, by the way, stipulates that the school is the employer, not the recruiter, so that bit seems ok, and no one is suggesting I enter China on anything other than a Z-Visa.)

I don't want to foul up a good job prospect by being a hard-on, but nor do I wish to fall prey to any pitfalls .

Any and all advice much appreciated.

[johntpartee]

Yes, it's the usual procedure. It's not 100% binding until you sign a hard copy in their presence, but this is China. Remember that; in all things, no matter what's "legal" and "ethical", remember that.

[all-at-sea]

Hi John. Thanks for the answer (and the advice).

[choudoufu]

the initial contract is required to apply for your work permit and
visa invitation letter.

you sign the real, binding contract after you arrive. that copy gets
red-stamped and you keep a copy.

be sure to READ the official contract before you sign it!!!!!!!!!!!
check that all the changes you requested be written into the
emailed contract have made their way into the new one.

there are times (by accident or design) that the two contracts
do not match.

[all-at-sea]

Thanks, choudoufu.

I didn't actually ask for any changes to be written into the emailed contract. The recruiter has indicated that the monthly salary will be increased slightly by the time the new semester starts. Probably a bit naive of me not to ask for that to be reflected in the emailed contract, but honestly, I didn't want to try and play hardball over 200-300 RMB.

The breach penalty is a bit on the scary side, but I've corresponded with teachers currently in situ who have the same. The consensus seems to be that the employer would have been well within their right to hit one or two previous FTs with the breach penalty, if they were that way inclined, but instead chose more amicable ways to part company.

I'll bear in mind your advice to read the final contract carefully before signing. It's such a minefield, or perhaps that should be thin line, that we have to tread, isn't it. You want to cover your back, but at the same time you don't want to antagonize the people you are going to be working with.

I imagine it must be quite a tense moment when you come to sign the contract: having to carefully read through it, clause by clause, addendum by addendum, as, all the while, your employers gaze expectantly (impatiently?) at you, proffered pen in hand.

[Javelin of Radiance]

Contracts and appendices here don't vary too much as most of it is in accordance with a standard government approved template. Main variations are salary, when you'll get paid, some of the benefits, what's in the apartment they're offering you, number of hours per week and a few other things, but the rest, including a breach penalty, is all standard. has anyone ever heard of someone paying or collecting on a breach penalty?

If you don't want to rush through reading it with someone looking over your shoulder just tell the employer you want to take it with you for a few hours or a day to read it thoroughly. Once you've been here a few years and get familiar with them you can skim through a contract in about five or ten minutes. I can anyway.

[all-at-sea]

Thanks, Javelin of Radiance. That's reassuring.

My contract didn't go into detail re what's in the appartment; just says that the employer shall provide "free housing arrangements including kitchen and bath facilities". It's pretty vague. Perhaps that's something I should enquire more firmly about.

[Nkengaola]

[GreatApe]

I'll add my .10 RMB by quickly telling you that I signed my first contract when I was still in America, and that most of the ex-pats I know working and teaching in China signed in their respective countries too. Arriving on a "Z Visa" is the best way to go.

Having said that, remember that the contract is a piece of paper ... what you experience when you put boots on the ground and arrive at work may not resemble the words on the paper very much at all.

Be ready to deal with that should the event arise, but give it time too.
Come prepared as best you can!

Good Luck!

--GA

[choudoufu]

even if you made no changes, you still should read the contract before
signing.

there are times when the contracts do not match. for example:

*the recruiter be screwing you.

*the (private) school boss be screwing you.

*they print the old copy by mistake, leaving out your revisions.

*they print a copy of someone else's contract

*and so on

you shouldn't need to do more than quickly skim the contract itself, as that
'should' be the standard safea contract. it's the shorter, usually 2-3 page
addendum added by the school that you must check more carefullerly.

[all-at-sea]

Thanks, everyone, for your answers and advice.

The recommendation to prepare for the unexpected seems to be a common one where China is concerned. The frequency with which it appears on message boards is both scary and a little bit exciting too.

[johntpartee]

[roadwalker]

OP, print out the "temporary" contract you signed over email. Bring it with you and hold it up to the new contract they will ask you to sign at the school. It should be easier to see if there were mistakes made or other variances from the original you were familiar with. Don't rely on your memory and don't feel rushed. As long as you smile and act relaxed, you won't be stepping on any toes. Anyone who tries to rush you through a contract signing is the one who should be worried about being antagonistic. Just smile and don't be rushed.

[Lancy Bloom]

It is how things work in China. They make things like contracts so complicated that they can't figure things out. One school I worked for had me sign three contracts. The good one was lifted from my apartment. The official one was for 4,500 and the second one I signed for 5,000 because I was such a good teacher and the one they gave to the PBS was for 3,500rmb. The 5,000 one disapeared from my apartment after three months.

[Javelin of Radiance]

So after the first month, when you were shorted on the salary by 1000 or 1500, what did you do next? Anything you add here could be helpful.