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tideout
Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 213
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 Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:33 am Post subject: Thoughts, impressions or alarm bells? |
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Greetings.
I unexpectedly found my self logging onto the China board which would have surprised me even a week ago.
A couple of things before I go to far - I'll keep some of the info here a bit vague for privacy's sake. Feel free to PM if you want to.
I have about four years experience in ESL , a recognized certificate etc.. I went to a country in SE Asia to try and get started with a new job and in the course of things ran across a recruiter who's known to someone I knew but I have been out of contact with.
Bottom line is I have given a bit more trust to the situation but not for anything specific. As the job market was slow where I was looking I went ahead and agreed to try working in China for the recruiter who seems on the face of it to be ok though information can be a bit vague.
I went through a couple of "loops". One, the recruiter who sent me and who paid for my ticket here and who I signed a contract with (hard to see how it's relevant to China as the contract seemsvague and geared to the recruiter not the school where I'm at)...Then I went through a "school agency" who sets up teachers in and around Hong Kong. They took me to Forever Bright Visa agency.
Now I'm at a school which seems, on the face of it to be fairly nice and helpful. There are several other foreign teachers here, a couple who've been here for 4 years and one for 2 years. The have apparently all left the "payroll chain" of having the recruiter skim their wages.
Does all of this sound fairly normal so far for China? I'm used to contracts out of Korea - a new appreciation for the "clarity" of Korean contacts has emerged....something I had never expected.
Pay etc....
As the recruiter seemed to need someone quickly to finish the semester ending about February 8th I was told they'd fly me back to the original country w/o problems for the break. So far, not much risked IMO and they (the recruiter/hong kong agency or local school) have paid for everything. No rumors so far about problems getting paid.
Yes, the pay. They started me off at $7500 rmb/month and I have "accomodations" that are spacey but a bit spartan feeling. I can imagine more money and a better place but I can imagine worse.
I'm currently on a 30 day business visa with a general understanding that I'll leave for a mini-run to HK and then back in again with a work visa on a future run. It's a bit chaotic and while I can imagine that this is the perfect time for a recruiter/school to screw me I see nothing specific going bad (it's very early). Obviously, I'll talk with the other foreign teachers as I get to know them a bit better.
The truth is, I had thought about trying China and this situation came up. I don't like the fact I'm getting skimmed every month in my paycheck by the recruiter and would like some thoughts on how to end the bleed out on that. In retrospect, maybe I would ask for a clearer contract but I'm guessing recruiters take advantage of the lack of clarity.
I haven't thought through the details but I guess if I see something terrible happening I could pull the plug when I get the supposed-to-be-paid for flight back in February - or I can ride it out and see what China has to offer which is all I would get a chance at in any new country right?
Thoughts, impressions or alarm bells? |
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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| I went through a couple of "loops". One, the recruiter who sent me and who paid for my ticket here and who I signed a contract with (hard to see how it's relevant to China as the contract seemsvague and geared to the recruiter not the school where I'm at)...Then I went through a "school agency" who sets up teachers in and around Hong Kong. They took me to Forever Bright Visa agency. |
Are you saying the recruiter who paid for the ticket is a recruiter in China? Your whole post is rather ambiguous and not clear. I am trying to find out the essential parts.
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| The have apparently all left the "payroll chain" of having the recruiter skim their wages. |
Note taken, paid airfare, and skimming pay. Still no idea of your post, just collecting info.
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| Does all of this sound fairly normal so far for China? I'm used to contracts out of Korea - a new appreciation for the "clarity" of Korean contacts has emerged....something I had never expected. |
Yea, in China ads will state "school needs teacher". You need to push and shove to find out what kind of school needs what kind of teacher, according to what kind of living arrangements, according to what kind of schedule, and according to things like location and salary.
Chinese don't have a package deal. Instead you have to ask for everything upfront. Order the hamburger, then order the drink, and then order the fries. At McDonald's you just say "I'll have number 3" and you get all three orders wrapped up. One example is apartments. I rented an apartment and paid for it, but when I left, they charged me for heating. I didn't know this. So, plan for extra charges because it's not all deductive reasoning what will get you through in China.
Have no worries, I have been to Japan, Korean, and China for 2.5 years. I am still happy here and ready to go into a 3rd-4th year in February.
You will gain an appreciation for Chinese "building" compared to other countries. You can build what kind of job you want, and there are usually no major worries.
Well, first you need a job dude/dudette. Work a month and then collect.
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| As the recruiter seemed to need someone quickly to finish the semester ending about February 8th I was told they'd fly me back to the original country w/o problems for the break. |
What break? I will comment on recruiter and airfare issue later.
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| So far, not much risked IMO and they (the recruiter/hong kong agency or local school) have paid for everything. No rumors so far about problems getting paid. |
This is kind of new, but if you are taking a job in the south, maybe Hong Kong agencies can help. I see two worry spots, airfare issue and this. So, let's see what else is in your post.
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| I'm currently on a 30 day business visa with a general understanding that I'll leave for a mini-run to HK and then back in again with a work visa on a future run. |
This may or may not be possible. They are getting stricter, and possibly they are working off older rules.
However, using them, why come to a country and only commit to 30-90 days? Get the Z visa from the get go. It is better to come to China with the Z visa. Look at the worry spots, like airfare. Your salary is about 1,000 USD, so they will fly you for 2 months and then pay 1 month salary? They make more money by getting you on a Z visa and you working 1 year. You get more money, everyone should be happier.
So, you work 1 month, they pay you hopefully. You work 2 months, they pay you for 2 months, hopefully. What about the third? You could work 3 months and have only 2 months to show for it and have to fly out of china. You are down to 2 months of salary minus living costs. How much ahead are you? I wouldn't work for only 3 months. Get the Z visa.
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| I could pull the plug when I get the supposed-to-be-paid for flight back in February |
But earlier you stated, "One, the recruiter who sent me and who paid for my ticket here". So, you really think they will pay for your flight back? This is being rather naive.
Well, all this looks unfinished. First, I want to highlight one issue.
"and who I signed a contract with"
In China, you can sign a contract with a recruiter who will farm you out. This means they send you to various schools.
I advise against this.
In China, you can sign a contract with a school who will farm you out. This means they can send you to various schools.
Even though they can farm you out, I would talk to the school. I worked 13 months with one school like this, and they treated me very well. I would do it again. However, I wouldn't do it with a recruiter. This alone would make me turn down the job you have mentioned, let alone the 3 month business visa limitation. It has 2 big strikes against it, and you haven't mentioned anything about talking with the school or schools you would be working for.
I am in a situation where I want to stay in China, so I don't mind putting up with all these traps.
After you get a school all lined up, then you have to do things like register with the local police, get a FEC (foreign expert certificate), and residence permit.
In China, everything will work out if you give it time. If you think with Korean "bali bali" logic, then it will stress you out. China can afford putting things off. You can't, so plan accordingly. |
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YAMARI
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 247
Location: shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I think you are so vague that you attract vague circumstances into your life. What are you trying to say here? Im get a numb brain just trying to read this. |
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tideout
Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| YAMARI wrote: |
| I think you are so vague that you attract vague circumstances into your life. What are you trying to say here? Im get a numb brain just trying to read this. |
I don't have an interest in responding to snide remarks. Thanks for stopping by.
As to the first responder (chinatimes) I appreciate your taking time to ask some specific questions. I think you are quite correct about a number of items including not thinking about China with a "Korea contract" mindset. My first mistake in a new market for me. Since I posted I've found that a number of people have come through this particular employer and school, some not happy and others have made a pretty good go of it. Three of the staff have been here for 3-5 years etc.. and while they are not all happy about some of the sleight of hand by the recruiter - it has worked out and they've been paid etc.. As for getting a return flight back, I may be naive but others have been paid appropriately it seems from them.
Much of the rest of the post has information that been clarified - some by asking direct questions to the school in question and staff have confirmed other things.
The truth is is that China is interesting and seems worth the risk I'm seeing at this point - the contract language, conditions of employment and other items seem like part of the learning experience on some level......
Regards & thanks for the post. |
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