Job Discussion Forums

[kuzari]

I would like to know how best to proceed towards working abroad. I have now a BA in two different subjects in the Humanities, a great deal of schooling in the visual arts, and a CELTA. I am American, but will acquire through descent at a later point EU citizenship.
My language skills are as follows: English (obviously), German (intermediate), Danish (broadly pre-intermediate), and Russian (Basic). I also have some conversational Farsi, but I do not have the Farsi script at this time.

I do have teaching experience, but not in the context of ESL/EFL beyond the CELTA practicum. My question is this:
Should I go abroad now and work, or should I acquire an MA first, given that money is not a concern? If so, where are the best schools to take an MA at?

Which plan is better?

Teach in Russia (or Turkey, or etc.) for 2-3 years, take an MA, go to the Middle East;

or

Take the MA now, teach in Russia (or etc.) for 2-3 years, go to the Middle East?

How worthwhile is it to acquire qualified teacher's status for teaching abroad? If it is important, ought I to acquire it now or later?

I do not wish to live or teach in Asia at any point, so please do not suggest that.

You may feel free to suggest any course of action you like. The ultimate goal is to have sufficient resources to be able to live abroad in perpetuity in either the CIS, Middle East, EU, or, I suppose Latin America or Northern Africa. From what I understand the latter three are less feasible as the pay is not sufficient for these purposes.
I therefore have concluded that my final goal should be to set up in the Middle East. If there are other locations or alternatives you might suggest, I would be interested in hearing them.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to what I have written.

[revenger2013]

You are qualified for the majority of jobs as it is, so why not see if you are suited to this life before tackling the MA? Go to Russia and chance your arm with the ME and see if you like it over there - I spent a year in Saudi Arabia last year and it is not for everybody. In retrospect, I didn't mind it but a lot of people quit (some of them were very well qualified) and in most cases, their reasons were pretty solid in my opinion.

Russia at times is a tough ask, I love Russia though but it can get your down at times, great students though! I love teaching Russian students. I don't know anything about Turkey but I am sure someone will come along to set you on the right path.

Teach in Russia/Turkey then teach in the Middle East - see if you can handle the life out there and then go and do your MA.

And if you are eligible for EU citizenship then I would do the MA TESOL in the UK which is great value for domestic and EU students, most year long postgraduate courses are well under $10000.

[kuzari]

Thank you for the advice. I have been abroad before for around a year (hence the Danish) and thus needn't worry about that. Are there particular programs that are most respected? Or does that not apply in this field in the rigid way it does in others?

[nomad soul]

[kuzari]

Thank you for your reply.
As for what I would study, I am open to suggestion as to what and where I ought to study. I wouldn't mind teaching in Iran either, but there doesn't appear to be a viable way to support yourself in that country that I am aware of. Part of the interest is cultural and intellectual (one of my majors was religion) and the rest is economic. I want to teach primarily (more than design things), but when I have more experience I might be able to give a more concrete reply. I am of course open to suggestion.
I had assumed it would be a subsection of Applied Linguistics (or some other name). Please kind enough to direct me towards where I ought to seek more information on the topic, or where I ought to consider going. Should I take an MA now instead if post MA experience will only be counted?

Thank you once again for your assistance.

[artemisia]

[nomad soul]

[kuzari]

Thank you both for your help. I will try to answer your questions sequentially.
I have been poking around both the Turkey and Russia forums and will continue to do so. I qualify for two different EU citizenships based on descent, but I have no overwhelming desire to live in anywhere in the EU besides Scandinavia; and, I might add, mostly as a retirement locale. I would be willing to live and work in Germany if the conditions were right-I have many years of German. I had more or less decided that Turkey or Russia were suitable as first time employment possibilities for me, though I am also open to other CIS countries or Germany (and obviously Scandinavia has no need).

I had considered working here before going abroad-I just thought that given the current economic climate going abroad would be more feasible-and possibly more exciting. Relocation in the US is economically possible for me.

Thank you for your considered reply.

The idea of taking an MA is attractive to me because I prefer learning by theory in an academic environment-I would enjoy it. If it meant increasing the number and quality of jobs I would have available to me and make me a more competent and knowledgeable teacher, even if I didn't choose to continue with EFL/ESL indefinitely, I would value the experience. I also can afford it, so it doesn't really matter if I don't like it later. Approximate age is late 20s-old, settled and sober, with no debts, no wife, no children and no plans of developing any of those problems.

[coledavis]

Language teaching not being the same as other teaching, I would be inclined to teach first, consider the MA second. It would be a pity to find that you don't really enjoy teaching languages or you don't like applied linguistics as a subject. If you teach first, you will get to find out without wasting money on what might be for you a duff degree. Also, if you do enjoy both teaching and the subject, you should find that your teaching experience will inform your later approach to your studies.

If you teach English first and find that it isn't for you, or the academic subject is a bore (you should get some idea while you're teaching), then you have a chance to totally rethink and do a higher degree in something else.

Another thought: You may decide you like teaching English but that the more you see of it, applied linguistics is mind-bendingly boring. A different masters may assist you in an English teaching career. E.g. you do a Masters in a business-related subject: good for teaching business English and/or for considering starting up a business such as a language school. Or you do literature, in preparation for doing work with a university (careful though, not all universities pay well). Or (sorry, I don't know what your first degree is) you study a technical subject and assist professionals in a particular area. Etc.

[Glenski]

[kuzari]

I appreciate the concern for my wallet and well-being. I should mention that I don't intend to jump off and do either without consideration.

As for mind-bendingly boring subjects, I majored in Religion/Theology, and Philosophy; with minors in English/Literature and Visual Arts. In terms of topics, I did minute analysis of Aristotle's logical writings (death by dullness to most), quite a bit of Hegel (assisted by my German), and many other things which would make a tender soul blanch before their awe-inspiring tediousness. In the arts, I did fine detail ink drawings. I don't have horror stories about Lit, as I did that mostly for relaxation and pleasure.

I have deferred acceptance in a competitive Lit program; would that be more or less useful than an MA in Applied Linguistics?

One of the reasons why I am somewhat insistent on this point of education is because having taken the CELTA, I should say it really isn't enough. It was demanding on time but not on content. I would be open to reading independently to broaden my knowledge, if there are any specific authors, books, or tomes I ought to invest in, I would love it if anyone would share their favorites.

As for conversation schools, yes. I've talked with a number already, naturally. I like to have a long term plan, though I tend to change them every few years. It is possible that I won't want to do this in perpetuity, but I do believe from the limited experience I have had thus far, I would enjoy doing it for a number of years. Realistically speaking, when it comes to careers, thats about all you can usually hope for before its time to move on. That being said, what I've seen so far has pleased me, and it addresses a broad range of my needs.

I find it odd that people are so opposed to being educated to do this! Imagine if engineers, pilots, and doctors had such notions! Quite odd.

International schools require teaching certification, whereas Universities do not. Where are the most enjoyable jobs? That is obviously subjective, but worth asking.

Finally, Glenski, where would you advise me to look at programs? A lot of people seem to bring up the New School. Is that where one should go? I don't mind traveling far afield if that will help. I'm concerned primarily with the quality (both in itself and perceived) of the program, with cost being a secondary concern. I like learning and the CELTA did not satisfy me on that front.

Thank you all for your continued help and advice. I hope that none of you feel I have slighted you by differing; it is only my nature to discuss things. I studied philosophy after all.

[coledavis]

"I find it odd that people are so opposed to being educated to do this! Imagine if engineers, pilots, and doctors had such notions! Quite odd. "
Speaking for me, it is not that I am opposed to your taking an MA, it's just that the CELTA is the key to gaining practical experience. The MA is a higher qualification when considered in the context of ESL/EFL. It just seems a pity to commit yourself to it before you know that the subject is really for you. Also, if you do it after gaining some teaching experience, you can consider theories in the light of your professional experience. As for philosophy, Hobbes is a much more exciting writer than anybody I encountered in my readings in applied linguistics. Takes all kinds I guess.

I would add another point about study in general. In many walks of life, especially when it relates to working as a practitioner, people frequently take their masters degrees as mature students rather than as an immediate next step.

[kuzari]

There are writers like Hobbes in philosophy, but then there are mountains of obscurantists (Derrida, anything modern and French), cures for insomnia (most writers from the Middle Ages), and then absolute drivel (most 20th century analytic philosophy).
I'm sure there are writers in Linguistics, applied or theoretical, that have more bounce in their steps than others.

Perhaps people do take the masters at a different stage. I'm still mentally locked into the progression towards professorship I had marked out for myself years ago. That being said, I think everyone would agree that the CELTA is more like running a marathon than taking a class. You keep going till the end despite being worn out. I like being in school-not so much the CELTA.

I am aware that it is a higher qualification, but they end to only last a year from what I've seen-which to me is a very brief amount of time. The questions are really more theoretical, in the sense that I would like to know where I ought to go should I choose to go (though I mightn't just now).

[coledavis]

I take your point about French postmodernists (if I've got that right).

Well, I did quite a bit of reading. In fact, that's a good idea: why not get a book list from the website of an MA and invest in some quality reading?

The only books I appreciated, and only the latter I enjoyed, were Michael Lewis's The English Verb and Jean Aitchison's Words in the Mind. I'm not sure whether both of them are still in fashion.

[kuzari]

Yes, that's right. At least sort of-none of them identify with that label and many reject it, so its really more of an external category to group a bunch of idiosyncratic babblers together.

I shall mark those down and see what there is to see regarding them.

I find Swan to be too much of a desk reference and not enough of a treatise. Any correctives you might advise?