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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: Help stop Korean police discrimination: Round 2 |
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First, please read this story about a respected blogger getting taken to jail, booked and charged with assault. The kicker? He was being harassed, walked away, was followed by a drunk ajossi spewing racial BS and called the police so the situation wouldn't escalate. He was charged with assault while the drunk ajossi was charged with nothing. The police told him he shouldn't call the police.
The story is here: http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2007/11/i-got-arrested.html
And the recent follow up post:
http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2007/11/a-few-more-word.html
Second, please write letters and emails to everyone you can about this issue. You can write one letter or email and send a copy everywhere. posted a lot of contact information in my first thread about this. I don't have access to it right now nor the time to get it off the Internet again.
You should write about this and any other discrimination stories to:
The head of the Seoul Metro Police. Here is one of his statements:
http://www.smpa.go.kr/smpa2007/eng/eng_01.asp
| Quote: |
SMPA is doing their best to secure world-class public
order by implementing "a mature democratic order, a high
standard of social order service, and a creative innovative
organization".
We are doing our best to minimize citizens' inconveniences
by providing assorted information and services. Your
feedback, suggestions and ideas are always welcome and
will be reflected in our policy making.
SMPA would like to assure you that we will be the best
police not only in Seoul but also in the world through
constant innovation. |
Write to the Seoul Metro Police's foreign affairs division.
Write to the Ministry of Tourism (or other appropriate tourism office)
Write to newspapers in Korea and especially international, global papers
Write to the Lonely Planet publishing company and Moon Handbooks publishing company
Write to your embassy
Write to your family and friends
The only thing that will stop this kind of hypocrisy and discrimination in Korea is international attention and hitting Korea in the tourism dollars. Do your part, it doesn't take long. |
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venus
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Help stop Korean police discrimination: Round 2 |
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First, please read this story about a respected blogger getting taken to jail, booked and charged with assault. The kicker? He was being harassed, walked away, was followed by a drunk ajossi spewing racial BS and called the police so the situation wouldn't escalate. He was charged with assault while the drunk ajossi was charged with nothing. The police told him he shouldn't call the police.
The story is here: http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2007/11/i-got-arrested.html
And the recent follow up post:
http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2007/11/a-few-more-word.html
Second, please write letters and emails to everyone you can about this issue. You can write one letter or email and send a copy everywhere. posted a lot of contact information in my first thread about this. I don't have access to it right now nor the time to get it off the Internet again.
You should write about this and any other discrimination stories to:
The head of the Seoul Metro Police. Here is one of his statements:
http://www.smpa.go.kr/smpa2007/eng/eng_01.asp
| Quote: |
SMPA is doing their best to secure world-class public
order by implementing "a mature democratic order, a high
standard of social order service, and a creative innovative
organization".
We are doing our best to minimize citizens' inconveniences
by providing assorted information and services. Your
feedback, suggestions and ideas are always welcome and
will be reflected in our policy making.
SMPA would like to assure you that we will be the best
police not only in Seoul but also in the world through
constant innovation. |
Write to the Seoul Metro Police's foreign affairs division.
Write to the Ministry of Tourism (or other appropriate tourism office)
Write to newspapers in Korea and especially international, global papers
Write to the Lonely Planet publishing company and Moon Handbooks publishing company
Write to your embassy
Write to your family and friends
The only thing that will stop this kind of hypocrisy and discrimination in Korea is international attention and hitting Korea in the tourism dollars. Do your part, it doesn't take long.[/quote]
I respect your motivation highly.
However.
It wont affect the tiny tourism industry because - people only come here for stopovers / business (Chian's human rights record isn't exactly slowing up tourism or business is it?) or are Japanese coming for cheap shopping. |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Help stop Korean police discrimination: Round 2 |
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| venus wrote: |
First, please read this story about a respected blogger getting taken to jail, booked and charged with assault. The kicker? He was being harassed, walked away, was followed by a drunk ajossi spewing racial BS and called the police so the situation wouldn't escalate. He was charged with assault while the drunk ajossi was charged with nothing. The police told him he shouldn't call the police.
The story is here: http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2007/11/i-got-arrested.html
And the recent follow up post:
http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2007/11/a-few-more-word.html
Second, please write letters and emails to everyone you can about this issue. You can write one letter or email and send a copy everywhere. posted a lot of contact information in my first thread about this. I don't have access to it right now nor the time to get it off the Internet again.
You should write about this and any other discrimination stories to:
The head of the Seoul Metro Police. Here is one of his statements:
http://www.smpa.go.kr/smpa2007/eng/eng_01.asp
| Quote: |
SMPA is doing their best to secure world-class public
order by implementing "a mature democratic order, a high
standard of social order service, and a creative innovative
organization".
We are doing our best to minimize citizens' inconveniences
by providing assorted information and services. Your
feedback, suggestions and ideas are always welcome and
will be reflected in our policy making.
SMPA would like to assure you that we will be the best
police not only in Seoul but also in the world through
constant innovation. |
Write to the Seoul Metro Police's foreign affairs division.
Write to the Ministry of Tourism (or other appropriate tourism office)
Write to newspapers in Korea and especially international, global papers
Write to the Lonely Planet publishing company and Moon Handbooks publishing company
Write to your embassy
Write to your family and friends
The only thing that will stop this kind of hypocrisy and discrimination in Korea is international attention and hitting Korea in the tourism dollars. Do your part, it doesn't take long. |
I respect your motivation highly.
However.
It wont affect the tiny tourism industry because - people only come here for stopovers / business (Chian's human rights record isn't exactly slowing up tourism or business is it?) or are Japanese coming for cheap shopping.[/quote]
That's true, but Korea is trying to improve this by taking out ads around the globe promoting Korea. Korea Sparkling! Private companies are buying adds, too, for instance Korean Air is buying lots of ads.
This discussion was had already in the first, now deleted, post.
Thanks for your respect and hopefully sending out some letters or emails. |
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GoldMember
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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Hate to put a spanner in the works here, HOWEVER-
As much as we all know the police here can be pathetic, and most here deplore injustice, it is not possible to know if the facts of the case are exactly correct.
As much as I and others would like to help out the guy, and by doing so, this also helps ourselves out, I'd personally like to be reassured that the facts of the case are in fact 100% correct, before writing any emails, and/or letters.
Often we think Koreans fly off the handle, without knowing all the facts, well we should'nt do the same.
Is it possible to get some confirmation? |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldMember wrote: |
Hate to put a spanner in the works here, HOWEVER-
As much as we all know the police here can be pathetic, and most here deplore injustice, it is not possible to know if the facts of the case are exactly correct.
As much as I and others would like to help out the guy, and by doing so, this also helps ourselves out, I'd personally like to be reassured that the facts of the case are in fact 100% correct, before writing any emails, and/or letters.
Often we think Koreans fly off the handle, without knowing all the facts, well we should'nt do the same.
Is it possible to get some confirmation? |
I like your approach, but you sound too timid. I say that for 2 reasons: 1. The blogger in question has a good reputation and isn't some newbie yahoo. I believe his account of the story even with understanding all stories are bias to a certain degree. He's got witnesses, video and audio, too. That's exactly why this case should be used as an example. 2. There are so many stories and incidents of police discrimination. I'm not just referring to the stories written on this website. I'm talking about personal friends who've been ignored by the Korean police when they needed help, or victimized by the Korean police simply for being a foreigner. This is bad enough, but with the Seoul Police commissioner making statements like I posted in my OP, it's time to call them on their BS.
So write some letters and don't worry about offending the racist institution that is the Seoul Metro police.
Just to rant on a bit, I was thinking about the long-term consequences of the police's discrimination. It's bad for Koreans and for foreigners. For foreigners, it's obviously bad because we have to deal with being discriminated against and all that it comes with. But it's bad for Koreans in the long run because people learn not to call the police or to work out differences peacefully and legally. People learn to strike first and run like hell. Many people know the police are worthless for foreigners, so our only option will be physical violence and running away. Is that what the police want? Of course not, but that's what they are going to end up with. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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ACAB.
If you're having trouble with someone, take the law into your own hands and retreat quickly. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Bibbitybop wrote: |
I like your approach, but you sound too timid. I say that for 2 reasons: 1. The blogger in question has a good reputation and isn't some newbie yahoo. I believe his account of the story even with understanding all stories are bias to a certain degree. He's got witnesses, video and audio, too. That's exactly why this case should be used as an example. 2. There are so many stories and incidents of police discrimination. I'm not just referring to the stories written on this website. I'm talking about personal friends who've been ignored by the Korean police when they needed help, or victimized by the Korean police simply for being a foreigner. This is bad enough, but with the Seoul Police commissioner making statements like I posted in my OP, it's time to call them on their BS.
So write some letters and don't worry about offending the racist institution that is the Seoul Metro police.
Just to rant on a bit, I was thinking about the long-term consequences of the police's discrimination. It's bad for Koreans and for foreigners. For foreigners, it's obviously bad because we have to deal with being discriminated against and all that it comes with. But it's bad for Koreans in the long run because people learn not to call the police or to work out differences peacefully and legally. People learn to strike first and run like hell. Many people know the police are worthless for foreigners, so our only option will be physical violence and running away. Is that what the police want? Of course not, but that's what they are going to end up with. |
Bippity I don't know why you're insisting on calling this incident an example of police discrimination.
CLEARLY the police did nothing wrong here. They're called to a scene. One drunken Korean guy accuses a black American guy of kicking him in the shin, and shows a big bruise or welt to back up his story. Black American guy says... well who knows what, but doesn't make a complaint against the other guy. Both get taken back to the station and get to make statements. Black American guy is arrested on the basis of drunkys big fat lie. It's not fair, that the guy lied through his teeth, very probably motivated by his racist outlook on life, but be honest... Anyone with wounds and an approprate lie can get someone arrested in almost any country.
PLEASE explain how this is an example of endemic racism. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
ACAB.
If you're having trouble with someone, take the law into your own hands and retreat quickly. |
Seems to be a logical choice, given the above story. In fact, the story reads as a "how NOT to deal with a drunk ajossi."
This doesn't mean you have to use violence, you can be creative, but actually trying to engage and diffuse a drunk is usually a no-win situation. Get out of there with the least amount of trouble. If he follows however...it's a different story, and self defense may come into play.
Had a drunk ajussi try to grab me the other night. I blocked his hand, side stepped, and kept walking. He was yelling something but I had headphones on so it didn't bother me much. |
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Scotticus
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
It's not fair, that the guy lied through his teeth, very probably motivated by his racist outlook on life, but be honest... Anyone with wounds and an approprate lie can get someone arrested in almost any country.
PLEASE explain how this is an example of endemic racism. |
Seriously? Where are you from that the police would arrest and charge the sober guy who called the police over the ranting, raving, hammered guy? I've seen this situation played out "back home" many times before and the cops ALWAYS take the sober guy's side (for obvious reasons). Real cops deal with drunks on a daily basis... they know how drunks think and how drunks act. Any cop in a real nation would toss the drunk in the tank and apologize to the sober guy (well, assuming the sober guy doesn't want to press harassment charges... you know, cause we have those kinds of laws in the West). |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Scotticus wrote: |
| happeningthang wrote: |
It's not fair, that the guy lied through his teeth, very probably motivated by his racist outlook on life, but be honest... Anyone with wounds and an approprate lie can get someone arrested in almost any country.
PLEASE explain how this is an example of endemic racism. |
Seriously? Where are you from that the police would arrest and charge the sober guy who called the police over the ranting, raving, hammered guy? I've seen this situation played out "back home" many times before and the cops ALWAYS take the sober guy's side (for obvious reasons). Real cops deal with drunks on a daily basis... they know how drunks think and how drunks act. Any cop in a real nation would toss the drunk in the tank and apologize to the sober guy (well, assuming the sober guy doesn't want to press harassment charges... you know, cause we have those kinds of laws in the West). |
In Australia, where I'm from, police are obliged to act on complaints. Perhaps, I shouldn't assume that's the case in a lot of countries, or that its what happened here, but it's a perfectly legitimate explanation for the actions of the K-cops.
Of course police can, and should use their discretion when determining to lay charges, but the drunk showed them an injury, said he was assaulted, and made an official complaint in writing. Where I'm from the cops have to lay charges. They might try to encourage the guy not to, but if he insists then they have to follow it up.
Just because the guy's drunk doesn't neccessarily mean he's lying, or should be disregarded. If he's belligerent - as far as the police know - it could well be because he was just kicked in the shin. |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Happeningthing:
I concur with Scotticus. The police did NOT do their job. Metro Politician called the police for help, not the drunk ajossi, yet they treated the situation like the ajossi called them and pretty much ignored everything Metro Politician had to say. They told him he shouldn't call the police, even when he is being harassed, followed, shouted racially at and having hands put on him.
To answer your main question, it's racist because it wouldn't have happened like this if Metro Politician was a Korean. This is case about police inefficiency. The racist elements are secondary, but escalate the inappropriateness of the situation. Read Metro Politician's second post on his site, I linked it above. He answers some of the questions I think you are raising.
Furthermore, like I said, this is one incident in MANY involving police discrimination of foreigners. This is just a great example to use as evidence since Metro Politician has video, audio and witnesses along with his credibility. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Where I'm from simply being drunk in public is enough to get you locked up overnight. |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Someone posted recently about why foreigners encounter racism with the police, but didn't give them any information. This is an example of what NOT to send to the police. You need specifics about their misconduct. |
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Scotticus
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
In Australia, where I'm from, police are obliged to act on complaints. Perhaps, I shouldn't assume that's the case in a lot of countries, or that its what happened here, but it's a perfectly legitimate explanation for the actions of the K-cops.
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Don't give me that shit. You're trying to tell me that anytime some sloshed belligerent drunk comes up with some stupid story about how he was "assaulted," that Australian cops will waste time and man-power investigating it? Do you have any idea how many crank calls, phoney bullshit and false statements get made to police departments every day? Can you imagine the utter lack of ANYTHING that would get done if police departments gave every stupid drunk the same clout they gave to people who have something legitimately wrong with them? Unless the circumstances were extremely suspicious, any cop with half a brain would look at this situation and ascertain EXACTLY what happened.
I'm not sure what's worse... your portrayal of Australian cops as morons, or your defense of the K-Cops handling of the situation. |
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